D&D 5E Monster Manual and Players Hand Book Power Levels

[sgtscott658]

Howdy-

Ok maybe I might be missing something here but looking over the MM monsters, they seem awfully weak compared to what they have to face vs the classes of the PHB. For example, in ver 3.5 the gibbering Mouther had an AC of 19, in 5E its AC is now 9. An Ancient Blue Dragon in 3.5 has an AC of 38, in 5E is AC 22. Are we as DM's supposed jack up the monsters abilities and everything else as we see fit?

Honestly, I'm not a killer DM but I would also like to present to my players a challenging campaign, not one where all they need is a 2 or better to hit an ancient red dragon.


Scott

 

[Abdomens]

Hi Scott

I think you're comparing 5E monsters vs 3E characters.

The bonuses to attack do not get nearly as high for 5E characters. Try to create a 17th level fighter (remember 5E has fewer and weaker magic items) and see how he stacks up against that Blue Dragon.

 

[Blackwarder]

Howdy-

Ok maybe I might be missing something here but looking over the MM monsters, they seem awfully weak compared to what they have to face vs the classes of the PHB. For example, in ver 3.5 the gibbering Mouther had an AC of 19, in 5E its AC is now 9. An Ancient Blue Dragon in 3.5 has an AC of 38, in 5E is AC 22. Are we as DM's supposed jack up the monsters abilities and everything else as we see fit?

Honestly, I'm not a killer DM but I would also like to present to my players a challenging campaign, not one where all they need is a 2 or better to hit an ancient red dragon.


Scott

Welcome to the joys of bounded accuracy. In the fifth edition of Dungeons & Dragons monsters are different from each other not by their AC and saving throws bt by how much damage they can dish out and how much damage they can sustain.

Another thing to remember is it in fifth edition the players armor class and to hit modifier remain in a pretty much narrow band of Numbers remember that proficiency bonus for characters goes from +2 to +6 so trying to hit a dragon with an AC of 83 would have been next to impossible.

Warder

 

[Jack99]

Welcome to the joys of bounded accuracy. In the fifth edition of Dungeons & Dragons monsters are different from each other not by their AC and saving throws bt by how much damage they can dish out and how much damage they can sustain.

Another thing to remember is it in fifth edition the players armor class and to hit modifier remain in a pretty much narrow band of Numbers remember that proficiency bonus for characters goes from +2 to +6 so trying to hit a dragon with an AC of 83 would have been next to impossible.

Warder

AC 83 would have been pretty hard to hit, even in 3.5

 

[Blackwarder]

AC 83 would have been pretty hard to hit, even in 3.5

Damn you dictation!!!

Warder

 

[doctorhook]

Another thing to remember is it in fifth edition the players armor class and to hit modifier remain in a pretty much narrow band of Numbers remember that proficiency bonus for characters goes from +2 to +6 so trying to hit a dragon with an AC of 83 would have been [-]next to[/-] impossible.

FIFY.

 

[Astrosicebear]

Howdy-

Ok maybe I might be missing something here but looking over the MM monsters, they seem awfully weak compared to what they have to face vs the classes of the PHB. For example, in ver 3.5 the gibbering Mouther had an AC of 19, in 5E its AC is now 9. An Ancient Blue Dragon in 3.5 has an AC of 38, in 5E is AC 22. Are we as DM's supposed jack up the monsters abilities and everything else as we see fit?

Honestly, I'm not a killer DM but I would also like to present to my players a challenging campaign, not one where all they need is a 2 or better to hit an ancient red dragon.


Scott

Make sure you are using the 5e PHB with the 5e MM. Best not to compare between versions.

 

[SilverfireSage]

Howdy-

Ok maybe I might be missing something here but looking over the MM monsters, they seem awfully weak compared to what they have to face vs the classes of the PHB. For example, in ver 3.5 the gibbering Mouther had an AC of 19, in 5E its AC is now 9. An Ancient Blue Dragon in 3.5 has an AC of 38, in 5E is AC 22. Are we as DM's supposed jack up the monsters abilities and everything else as we see fit?

Honestly, I'm not a killer DM but I would also like to present to my players a challenging campaign, not one where all they need is a 2 or better to hit an ancient red dragon.


Scott

In agreement with others in this thread, and to show an example through some quick math, a 20th level fighter would have a +6 to hit from a proficiency bonus, a +5 from his ability modifier, and around a +2 from magic items, giving him a +13 bonus. This will be true for almost every character as well, so that's just slightly better than a 50% chance to hit the blue dragon. Now, that same fighter will have something like a 23 AC, 18 from plate, +2 from magic, maybe +2 from shield, +1 from ring of protection, so an Ancient Blue dragon would have a 65% chance to hit.

 

[sgtscott658]

Hmmmmm, seems kinda boring with a serious lack of that epic feel when at 20th level your running around with only a +2 magical sword and battling ancient dragons with AC 22. Progression seems to be the same for a fighter as with a monk IE everybodies proficiency level is the same. In 3.5 the fighter had a +4 to hit vs a Monk's +3. It just seems weird how all the classes in 5E seem to progress at the same rate but have some really nice super powers to put the hurt on the bad guy.

In agreement with others in this thread, and to show an example through some quick math, a 20th level fighter would have a +6 to hit from a proficiency bonus, a +5 from his ability modifier, and around a +2 from magic items, giving him a +13 bonus. This will be true for almost every character as well, so that's just slightly better than a 50% chance to hit the blue dragon. Now, that same fighter will have something like a 23 AC, 18 from plate, +2 from magic, maybe +2 from shield, +1 from ring of protection, so an Ancient Blue dragon would have a 65% chance to hit.

 

[the Jester]

It's fine. Play it for a while; you'll see.

The math in 5e is much more like the math in 1e than it is the math of 3e/4e.