Monster Revisions

Pssthpok

First Post
That is utterly unreasonable. Some homebrew tripe like this is hardly proof that immunities are 'dangerous'; what appears dangerous here is your willingness to post/pose an argument at the expense of reason.
You appear to be saying: "If something is immune to everything, that makes immunities erroneous/dangerous/broken."
Which can be countered by saying: "Nothing has ever been published like this before, and for good reason."
Just because you can build something that can do something perfectly doesn't make that something broken. I mean, if someone rolls 3 20s in a row, are dice broken?
 

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Gothenem

Explorer
Meh, I can still kill the thing. No matter how many immunities you pile on, you will eventually find something that breaks the immunity.

You often do not have to look past the PHB, DMG, or MM.

And that Regeneration line is so not up to 3.x code, I don't know where to begin.

Really, to something that can only take non-lethal damage, it is impossible to bring it to -20 hp.
 
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dante58701

Banned
Banned
Agreed...EVERYTHING has a weakness. Even the mighty pun pun can fall to a lowly but excruciatingly lucky 1st level character. It just depends on how far you are willing to let players abuse the rules, not break...abuse. LOL!!!
 

Pssthpok

First Post
Right....
*sigh*

Just let your PCs... deal 10x normal damage, have 1000x normal HP, have a number of rerolls per round equal to the enemy's CR, and make all your saves based off popular consent... that's not breaking any rules necessarily, it's just bending the existing ones.... when is your next gaming session? I have GOT to see how those go.
 

Hey Pssthpok dude! :)

Pssthpok said:
That is utterly unreasonable. Some homebrew tripe like this is hardly proof that immunities are 'dangerous'; what appears dangerous here is your willingness to post/pose an argument at the expense of reason.

Easy tiger.

Pssthpok said:
You appear to be saying: "If something is immune to everything, that makes immunities erroneous/dangerous/broken."
Which can be countered by saying: "Nothing has ever been published like this before, and for good reason."
Just because you can build something that can do something perfectly doesn't make that something broken. I mean, if someone rolls 3 20s in a row, are dice broken?

What I think zarquin failed to take into account are the Monster Design Parameters I outline at the back of the version 5 Challenge Rating Document (or alternately in the Grim Tales book).
 

Pssthpok

First Post
I guess 'tripe' is too strong a word. :eek:

No doubt. But HD-vs.-CR aside, I think the principle here is out of whack. You can't just make something immune to everything and point to it as a reason to say that immunities are imbalanced, at any CR/HD. Ultimately, it's the DM's fault if something's out of whack, not the mechanics themselves, especially in a situation involving something homebrew like this.
 

Gothenem

Explorer
Pssthpok said:
No doubt. But HD-vs.-CR aside, I think the principle here is out of whack. You can't just make something immune to everything and point to it as a reason to say that immunities are imbalanced, at any CR/HD. Ultimately, it's the DM's fault if something's out of whack, not the mechanics themselves, especially in a situation involving something homebrew like this.

Agreed. Nothing is immune to everything, but I really can see immunities to certain things. I agree with U_K that certain creatures should just have stoopidly high resistances instead of immunities. I can see a Fire Elemental being Immune to fire. I have a lot of trouble seeing a fire elemental burn to death. On the other hand, I do think that if a fire is hot enough, even a Fire Giant or Red Dragon will go up in flames!
 

dante58701

Banned
Banned
One of my favorites...though the challenge rating?

Sea Serpent, Shipbreaker
Colossal Dragon (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 38d12+383 (630 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 80 ft. (16 squares), swim 240 ft.
Armor Class: 44 (-8 size, +42 natural), touch 2, flat-footed 44
Base Attack/Grapple: +38/+74
Attack: Bite +51 melee (4d6+30 plus poison)
Full Attack: Bite +51 melee (4d6+30 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 130 ft./85 ft. or 60 ft./40 ft. (Coiled)
Special Attacks: Constrict 4d6+30, improved grab, poison, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Coiled form, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to sleep and paralysis, scent, slender form
Saves: Fort +33, Ref +23, Will +26
Abilities: Str 50, Dex 11, Con 30, Int 11, Wis 17, Cha 21
Skills: Hide +25, Intimidate +25, Knowledge (nature) +2, Listen +44, Move Silently +20, Search +40, Spot +44, Survival +24, Swim +50
Feats: Ability Focus (poison), Blind-Fight, Cleave, Endurance, Fast Swim (b), Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Any aquatic
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 27
Treasure: Half coin, double goods, standard items
Alignment: Usually chaotic neutral
Advancement: 39 + HD (Colossal +)
Level Adjustment: -

It's body scales are dark gray-brown, festooned with barnacles, seaweed, and other sea life. It's maw is the size of a large wagon, with teeth the size of greatswords.

A shipbreaker is thought to be the largest of the sea serpents, a true behemoth that rules the seas. It is a fearless hunter that enjoys attacking the largest seagoing vessels and crushing them in it's mighty coils. Fortunately the beast spends most of it's time hibernating. It is most often sighted deep at sea, usually just before it approaches and breaks up a naval vessel into kindling.

A shipbreaker sea serpent is 152 feet long and 19 feet thick. The beast has broad flippers 38 feet long and 25 feet wide that it can use to help propel it's bulk onto land. The shipbreaker sea serpent weighs 152 tons (304,000 pounds).

It is unknown what language the shipbreaker speaks or understands, if any, since none have ever reported successfully speaking with it.

Combat

A shipbreaker sea serpent attacks ships and huge-sized creatures as it's primary prey. It ignores smaller creatures except as snacks. It's favorite tactic is to ambush a ship r approach it at speed, then wrap it in it's coils and crush it. It then feasts on the sailors at it's leisure.

Coiled Form (Ex): A shipbreaker sea serpent can make itself smaller by coiling itself into a smaller space. This reduces it's effective size in combat by one size category. This does not change it's ability scores or reduce it's beneficial size modifiers. This only reduces it's detrimental size modifiers. Although it's space and reach while coiled are included in the statistics above, the other variables of this maneuver are not included in the statistics above.

Constrict (Ex): A shipbreaker sea serpent, on a successful grapple check, deals 4d6+30 points of damage.

Improved Grab (Ex): A shipbreaker sea serpent must hit an opponent up to one size smaller with it's bite attack to use this ability. It can then start a grapple check as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to constrict or swallow the foe whole in the following round.

Poison (Ex): A shipbreaker sea serpent's bite is lethally poisonous. Fortitude save (DC 41), 3d6/3d6 Constitution damage. The save DC is Constitution-based, and includes a +2 Ability Focus bonus.

Slender Form (Ex): A shipbreaker sea serpent is exceptionally slender for a creature of it's incredible length. This means that it is in truth one size category smaller than it's length would indicate.

Swallow (Ex): A shipbreaker sea serpent can try to swallow Gargantuan or smaller creatures or objects by making a successful grapple check. The swallowed creature or object takes 2d8+30 points of crushing damage per round plus 2d8 points of acid damage per round from the shipbreaker's gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut it's way out by using claws or a light slashing weapon to deal 40 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 31). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed creature must cut it's own way out.

A shipbreaker sea serpent's interior can hold one Gargantuan, two Huge, four Large, sixteen Medium, 64 Small, or several hundred Tiny or smaller creatures or objects.

Skills: A shipbreaker sea serpent has a +8 racial bonus on swim checks to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. It can always take a 10 on a swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.
 
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dante58701

Banned
Banned
Oddly, I like Immunities, though I have no problem with a fire elemental being "burned". Provided the real problem isnt burning, but rather a swiping of the oxygen by a more powerful fire elemental or the like.
 

Hey dante dude! :)

dante58701 said:
Sea Serpent, Shipbreaker
Challenge Rating: ?

CR 27...although it looks like one of those monsters (such as the Thunder Worm or Tarrasque) which would be really easy to gain situational modifiers against. This I suggest its CR is only 27 when you can't avoid the monster or attack it from out of harm's way.
 

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