Monsters and Marked

[Shag]

What does a monsters 'mark' do? I get what PC marks do, but I've played a few games and a monster will have a power such as +xx vs AC does XX damage and the target is marked until the end of its next turn. But then it doesn't say what this mark does anywhere.

Maybe they'll make this more clear in 4.5

 

[Oldtimer]

All marks have the same basic function. You get a -2 penalty on your attack roll against a target other than the enemy that marked you.

 

[Shag]

Ah! Thanks, I was thinking that this was the case, but wasn't sure. Thanks!

 

[the Jester]

Yep, marked is a condition and is described in the PH combat chapter along with the rest of 'em (blinded, dazed, slowed, etc).

 

[webrunner]

Special mark effects, technically depend on how they're worded.

Fighter marks just give the "marked" condition. The ability for a Fighter to then step in if they attack or move is an ability the fighter has, not part of the mark, so this would be a surprise.

Paladin marks however are rolled into the single marking power (Divine Challenge, or Divine Sanction) and when hit by that then they know that attacking will make the gods a bit annoyed.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The actual definition is a little different what people have provided above.

You take a -2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn't target the creature that marked you.

• You can be subjected to only one mark at a time, and a new mark supersedes an old one.
• A mark ends immediately when its creator dies or falls unconscious.

 

[Zaran]

Special mark effects, technically depend on how they're worded.

Fighter marks just give the "marked" condition. The ability for a Fighter to then step in if they attack or move is an ability the fighter has, not part of the mark, so this would be a surprise.

Paladin marks however are rolled into the single marking power (Divine Challenge, or Divine Sanction) and when hit by that then they know that attacking will make the gods a bit annoyed.

The way the game is designed if a fighter marks a creature, that creature will know exactly what will happen if they shift or attack someone other than the fighter. It's up to GM to decide whether the monster is smart enough to understand what that means or not though.

 

[Mirtek]

The way the game is designed if a fighter marks a creature, that creature will know exactly what will happen if they shift or attack someone other than the fighter.

No it won't until the first time the fighter uses his fighter abilities on a marked target. The mark and the fighters follow-up abilities are separate issues (unlike a paladin or swordmage where the mark and the follow-up is part of the same power).

When a fighter marks a monster the monster automatically knows everything there is to know about that mark. However everything that is to know about that mark is the -2 penalty to attack. Anything else is not part of the mark.

 

[Stumblewyk]

When a fighter marks a monster the monster automatically knows everything there is to know about that mark. However everything that is to know about that mark is the -2 penalty to attack. Anything else is not part of the mark.

This is the same argument I have with my DM regarding marks. My wife plays a Warden. She marks everything she can get near, and she never gets to use any of her At-Will "you didn't attack me" powers because the DM insists that the monsters know what she's capable of doing to them as soon as they're marked.

I say (and I've ruled in my own game) that the monster knows it's marked (and knows it takes a -2 to hit anyone but the marking creature) but it doesn't know what that creature's abilities are in regards to an ignored mark, unless the ramifications for ignoring said mark are part of the marking power (like a swordmage or paladin). Fighters and Wardens have special class abilities that kick in if a mark is ignored, but it's not a condition of the mark itself.

If only my DM would see it that way, I'd stop having to bite my tongue, and my wife wouldn't feel like so many of her class features are getting completely ignored. =/

 

[MrMyth]

By the specifics of the rules, a monster knows the details of any conditions on them. The thing to keep in mind is that different marks work differently.

A paladin, for example, subjects someone to their Divine Sanction. This is one complete effect - the monster knows that they are marked, and will get zapped the first time each round they violate the mark.

A warden or fighter, meanwhile, simply marks an enemy. All the monster knows is that they will take a -2 penalty to hit if they make an attack that doesn't include the fighter. Now, many will likely be smart enough to know that fighters often punish those who violate their mark, and they may suspect something will happen. But they don't know for sure until they see it in action.

For me, this is fine - more magical marks like Divine Challenge and a swordmage's Aegis are more obvious how they will act upon the victim, while with Fighters and Wardens, all that is obvious is that they are in your face distracting you.

That said, I don't think there would be any game balance issues with declaring that monsters always know the penalties for violating a mark, or that they never know until they see the effect happen. Just be prepared to make the same hold true for players, and all should be fine.