Monte Cook on publishing a successful d20 product

[Haffrung Helleyes]

At a minimum, Johnathan Tweet could have followed Monte's example. If anything, he was more instrumental in the design of 3E than Monte. And his pre-3E credentials were more impressive (he wrote Ars Magica, for example).

Monte took a risk -- he left his safe job at WoTC and struck out on his own. He chose a high risk, high reward strategy, and it worked for him.

Ken

Nobody is denying that he has put out products that are reviewed favorably and that people like. However, the article that we're discussing tells how he put out a successful product, and was written in a "here's my advice for other publishers" type of tone that completey ignored the fact that he started out in the d20 market with a HUGE advantage due to his key role/position in WOTCs 3E rollout.

Quality is a matter of opionion, but other authors that turn out quality work have been mentioned by you (and others) in this thread. Monte has/had an advantage over them due to his job at WOTC and some of the key products he worked on before going solo. Nobody else even comes close. Kudos to Monte for not dropping the ball and wasting the good will/recognition that he had earned, but he was in a unique position to do what he did, and to not admit/mention that it played a huge factor in is business/marketing campaign intellecutally dishonest. Others can't follow his example because things fell into place for him in a very special way that I doubt anyone else can duplicate.

 

[buzz]

The difference is that all the costs for those books except printing have already been paid for by the original releases. When you put together a book from scratch, you have to budget for writing, art, editing, layout, etc. Monte wrote Ptolus himself and Sue edited it. Convervatively speaking, WotC would spend $50,000 to design and edit a similar product. Now add in art costs, layout, printing, marketing, and so on and that's a big risk for WotC.

Isn't WotC already pretty close, though? I mean, other than page count and the little ribbons, WotC puts out books that look as nice as Ptolus all the time. Or in the ballpark at least.

I mean, Monte had been "developing" Ptolus for years, possibly prior to knowing he was going to release it as a product. Would that be so different from, say, WotC putting together a prestige edition of the FRCS, updated for 3.5, that was 600 full-color pages? I'd think that would sell even better than Ptolus, thus earning a profit.

I'm just spitballing here, in full expectation that you'll be able to use your pubishing-fu to explain why I'm off-base.

 

[Storm Raven]

Quality is a matter of opionion, but other authors that turn out quality work have been mentioned by you (and others) in this thread. Monte has/had an advantage over them due to his job at WOTC and some of the key products he worked on before going solo. Nobody else even comes close.

Really? So, you are of the opinion that, say, John Tweet, Skip Williams, and Sean Reynolds were "not even close" to Monte in terms of name recognition prior to Monte leaving WotC to form Malhavoc? You are saying that the piles of other reasonably high profile game designers like John Wick, Dave Pulver, and Bruce Cordell were at a huge disadvantage vis a vis Monte Cook from the get go?

Kudos to Monte for not dropping the ball and wasting the good will/recognition that he had earned, but he was in a unique position to do what he did, and to not admit/mention that it played a huge factor in is business/marketing campaign seems intellecutally dishonest. Others can't follow his example because things fell into place for him in a very special way that I doubt anyone else can duplicate.

And this assumption of yours explains why many would be game designers and authors fail. I am reminded of Heinlein's five rules of writing, and how the bulk of would-be writers would never follow them, and thus complain that the writing market was unfairly biased against them.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

If you are a fan of his, you think he's successful because he's a genius, he's cool, yada yada yada.

If you aren't, then it seems like there is a cult of personality-like quality to his success.

Hmm... I wonder where you sit on the subject...

Option 3: You like his work because it's good and makes your game better. You view his success as following from a business model that prefers quality over quantity.

Seriously, his books could have been written by an infinite number of monkeys and I'd still buy them because I know that they're going to be good. I've never been disappointed. Of course, I didn't buy the books I knew I wouldn't enjoy, like Requiem for a God, but I bet if I really wanted a book about dead gods, that would be the book to read.

Solid track record, imaginative content, good customer support, PDF publishing before it got cool, excellent price/value ratio. That's the key to success, not Monte's name on the cover.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Isn't WotC already pretty close, though? I mean, other than page count and the little ribbons, WotC puts out books that look as nice as Ptolus all the time. Or in the ballpark at least.

I mean, Monte had been "developing" Ptolus for years, possibly prior to knowing he was going to release it as a product. Would that be so different from, say, WotC putting together a prestige edition of the FRCS, updated for 3.5, that was 600 full-color pages? I'd think that would sell even better than Ptolus, thus earning a profit.

I'm just spitballing here, in full expectation that you'll be able to use your pubishing-fu to explain why I'm off-base.

The only books I've seen from WotC that look as good as Ptolus are Draconomicon and Tome of Magic. I haven't read Libris Mortis or the aberration book (whatever it was called), but I'm led to believe they're nice. All the other books are just re-using the layout and backgrounds from the core books, which I was never that fond of to begin with. Oh, also perhaps BoVD. That one had some nice design in it, despite being core-derived.

 

[buzz]

The only books I've seen from WotC that look as good as Ptolus are Draconomicon and Tome of Magic.

Hence, ballpark. I have a better opinion of their overall work than you, I guess. What they do day-to-day isn't too far off the mark, is all I'm saying.

 

[Christoph the Magus]

Really? So, you are of the opinion that, say, John Tweet, Skip Williams, and Sean Reynolds were "not even close" to Monte in terms of name recognition prior to Monte leaving WotC to form Malhavoc? You are saying that the piles of other reasonably high profile game designers like John Wick, Dave Pulver, and Bruce Cordell were at a huge disadvantage vis a vis Monte Cook from the get go?
QUOTE]

Ummmm, yep. That's pretty clearly what I'm saying. Obviously you don't agree, which is fine. I've stated my position and you're not buying it, and the reverse is true. Nice chatting with you.

 

[Storm Raven]

Ummmm, yep. That's pretty clearly what I'm saying. Obviously you don't agree, which is fine. I've stated my position and you're not buying it, and the reverse is true. Nice chatting with you.

It's not that I disagree with your position, it is that I find your position to be so ludicrous as to be ridiculous.

John Tweet and Skip Williams were both credited on the cover of the 3.0 PHB as authors. Both of their writing credits extend much deeper than that, Skip is credited in the 1978 PHB; Skip, not Monte, was the long time writer of Sage Advice. Tweet, along with Rein*Hagen was one of the authors of Ars Magica, as well as writing Everway, and Over the Edge, plus he has design or author credits in about seventy other titles.

Before starting Malhavoc, Monte had about forty writing credits, and his most noteworthy non-WotC credit was Champions supplements he had done in the early 1990s. The idea that Monte somehow had a huge name recognition edge over guys like Tweet, Williams, and others simply displays a lack of memory concerning the relative "noteworthiness" of these game designers when Monte left to form Malhavoc. I, for example, recall lots of people saying that Monte was crazy to think he could helm an independent company on his own.

When he left WotC, Monte was one of many reasonably notable game designers. It is the work that he has done since he left WotC that has made his name loom large.

 

[Infernal Teddy]

Monte Cook is to D&D 3.x fans what David Hasselhoff is to Germany.

Not any more. *Shudder*

 

[Christoph the Magus]

It's not that I disagree with your position, it is that I find your position to be so ludicrous as to be ridiculous.QUOTE]

Good for you. In case it wasn't clear from my previous post, I think that you're completely wrong but realize that I'm not going to convince you and am done discussing it with you. Take care.