[MotW] Creeping Cold + Extend Spell = ?

[taran]

Creeping Cold is a 2nd level Druid spell with a duration of three rounds. It states that it does 1d6 "cumulative" damage, and goes on to explain that it deals 1d6 damage to its target the first round, 2d6 the second, and 3d6 the third.

So, if I cast Creeping Cold with Extend Spell, it seems as though it should last six rounds, dealing 1d6 damage on the first round, 2d6 damage on the second round, and so on up to the sixth round where it does 6d6 damage.

The problem with this theory is that Masters of the Wild contains another spell, Greater Creeping Cold, with a duration of 4 rounds. It's 7th level! So how, in your opinion, should Extend Spell and Creeping Cold interact?

 

[Suldulin]

caps out at 3d6 for the rest of the duration?

 

[Crothian]

It would inflict 3d6 for the next 3 rounds.

 

[graydoom]

I'd tend to agree with Crothian and Suldulin.

Though an alternate solution, and perhaps a more balanced one, would be to have it build up slower. It would do 1d6 to the target the first two rounds, then 2d6 for two rounds, then 3d6 for two rounds. More overall damage, but down slower.

 

[Vhane]

6 rounds

1= d6 2= 2d6 3=3d6 4,5, and 6= 3d6

Try putting extends on Acid Arrow makes for much vitriolic goodness.

 

[Crothian]

I'd tend to agree with Crothian and Suldulin.

Though an alternate solution, and perhaps a more balanced one, would be to have it build up slower. It would do 1d6 to the target the first two rounds, then 2d6 for two rounds, then 3d6 for two rounds. More overall damage, but down slower.

I think slowing it down would be bad. It would weaken the spell of the first three rounds, the original duration.

 

[Vaeron]

Creeping Cold is a 2nd level Druid spell with a duration of three rounds. It states that it does 1d6 "cumulative" damage, and goes on to explain that it deals 1d6 damage to its target the first round, 2d6 the second, and 3d6 the third.

{snip}

The problem with this theory is that Masters of the Wild contains another spell, Greater Creeping Cold, with a duration of 4 rounds. It's 7th level! So how, in your opinion, should Extend Spell and Creeping Cold interact?

Yuck.

It should work exactly the way the spell and the feat describe, and it's unfortunate that they used the word cumulative. Balanced, no. Flawed design, yes. You have (if extended, of course) a 3rd level spell that does an AVERAGE of 72 dmg and a max of 126. Where was the editor hiding when this product came up for review? Anyway, I suggest either disallowing the spell, developing a house rule for how it operates, or somehow otherwise neutralizing it, although it would make for a nice short combat round, especially against multiple opponents if you cast a Quickened/Extended version followed that same round by a Extended Version, followed by another quickened/extended the next round, etc. Maybe even an Extended/Maximized version.Wipe out a whole group of enemies in a short period of time... Massive potential for abuse here. No one would ever memorize any spell except for feat-enhanced Creeping Colds at various levels.

EDIT: Oh, and as for how I personally would handle it? The only way to fairly limit its power while still observing the correct usage of feats would be to disallow the spell entirely. You're talking about a spell castable at 5th level that WOULD kill any 5th level character (and even some 20 level characters) with no problem. Even WITH the modified 1d6/2d6/3d6/3d6/3d6/3d6 formula some offered up in this thread you're still talking an AVERAGE of 50 damage).

V

 

[Vaeron]

A workable solution might be just to make the dmg 1d6 per round, non cumulative. This makes more sense for a second level spell anyway. Since metamagic feats, even of the same type, are stackable (according to the official FAQ), piling a number of extends to 9th level on Creeping Cold at non-cumulative 1d6 over 24 rounds would result in a total of a 24d6 (average 84) dmg instead of a total of 300d6 (average 1050 dmg) using the cumulative rules. In fact, using the rules as written with 7 extends would require a save against instant death for 50+ damage each round after the 13th or so.

My solution: 1d6 a round. Makes it less desireable at later levels where you get instant kill type spells, but compared to magic missile or even fireball, which have definite caps, this sounds about right.

V

 

[Suldulin]

Re: Re: [MotW] Creeping Cold + Extend Spell = ?

EDIT: Oh, and as for how I personally would handle it? The only way to fairly limit its power while still observing the correct usage of feats would be to disallow the spell entirely. You're talking about a spell castable at 5th level that WOULD kill any 5th level character (and even some 20 level characters) with no problem. Even WITH the modified 1d6/2d6/3d6/3d6/3d6/3d6 formula some offered up in this thread you're still talking an AVERAGE of 50 damage).

V

*eyebrow* and the single target 1d6/2d6/3d6/3d6/3d6/3d6 (adds up to 15d6) 5th level spell is worse the the 4th level(for druids) spell "flamestrike" which can inflict the same amount of damage but to multiple targets and force a massive damage save(if using that rule) as well?

 

[bleedthefreak]

Re: Re: Re: [MotW] Creeping Cold + Extend Spell = ?

*eyebrow* and the single target 1d6/2d6/3d6/3d6/3d6/3d6 (adds up to 15d6) 5th level spell is worse the the 4th level(for druids) spell "flamestrike" which can inflict the same amount of damage but to multiple targets and force a massive damage save(if using that rule) as well?

Also don't forget to mention Flamestrike doesn't need a 6 (!) round build-up. I don't know about all of you, but after 6 rounds of combat many fights have already been decided...