Move, how to increase,modify in ecvery way.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Because it's horrendously disgustingly broken, I'm guessing? Just look at the very template he mentioned from that book, Feral. It's insane!

The book's much-vaunted racial HD level up progressions (to play a monster race with lots of HD/LA from level 1) are terrible. A friend made an Astral Deva using that progression. First off, it was outdated, giving resistances and immunities in line with the 3.0 deva, but not 3.5 (which changed the immunities angels got). Worse, it was hella unbalanced. The character got the Protective Aura too early, such that it practically made her and the party immune from any spellcasting at all at that level. She got flight just a few levels in, yet large size comes at level 18 or so.

The whole book is a horrific unbalanced ugly mess and deserves to be viciously ignored and ostracized.

 

[Sekhmet]

Giving rules to play as creatures without free will is one of the major reasons. Devils, Demons, Angels, Vampire Spawn, Shadows, and Zombies (created by Mohrgs) to name a few, all lack independence and the ability to make their own choices. Roleplaying one would be as boring as playing an inanimate object. They're simply tools to be used by their direct and indirect superiors.

Giving rules to play as creatures with no intelligence score (Constructs, some Undead, most Animals and Plants) or no ability to communicate are other reasons I don't like it.
The ability to be "part" monster, in the sense that you aren't really that monster until you've leveled to a certain point. For instance, a Vampire is a Vampire the moment it rises from the grave, with all the abilities of a Vampire. However, SS gives you a leveling path to take so that you can gradually earn the Vampire's abilities which is a direct contradiction of that.

The book has some good ideas, but I think it was poorly executed as whole.

 

[Greenfield]

The Feral template (Savage Species) has a variable ECL adjustment, depending on the hit dice of the creature you're starting with. The bonuses it gives are level dependent as well.

At the lowest levels it adds natural weapons (claws) if they aren't present, natural armor, and grants a fast heal.

It does a few other things as well, but one it doesn't do is add to base movement. The "Feral Half Ogre Barbarian" got his boosts from Half Ogre (base 40) and Barbarian (+10).

In theory you could have a Feral Human, for +1 ECL and get some nasty bonuses. Hence, the reason people say it's broken.

 

[kridily]

I try not to necro old threads but...

Eman Resu, you said anything movement or speed right? I've been going around forums like these for a few weeks looking for the same tips to partially optimize my character for movement and speed. I'm working on compiling them now, and assuming, as you say, all official published Wizards of the Coast 3.0 and 3.5 D&D books and supplements (excluding Dragon Magazine) are fair game, I may be able to help. After about 15 to 20 hours, I've gotten my character up a top fly speed of 752.5 feet, and (so far) with 12 move actions per round, by 30th level (though you could do it in less). It can only be sustained for one six second round before dropping to a consistent 462.5 and 4-5 move actions per round, but for reference, that's 1505 feet per second (380 faster than the speed of sound at STP) and ~1026 miles per hour.

Interestingly enough my character is a Warforged (base 30ft) for starters, haha, so there are obviously a few things that could be additionally done to increase speed. Surprisingly enough, movement and speed are really only a part of my character, so my build isn't really optimized for it (most of my feats and half of my class levels go towards other stuff). Also, my DM basically banned Savage Species (no access to feral), and isn't a big fan of me, say, declaring devotion to some obscure god from the Egyptian Pantheon in order to get a 5 foot sacred bonus to speed, or anything like that. No dirty tricks, no silly recursive loops, no bizarre interpretations, and no thought experiments (a pair of level 1 characters can achieve infinite speed indefinitely, and a 3rd level character can become immune to being attacked, but that's no fun. There's even a way to get a level 1 Pun Pun build *sigh*). Also, not broken (except for the action economy) in my opinion, given the level requirement and little endurance (the top speed could technically be sustained, but it's awfully expensive). I could probably fanangle a different (albeit still Gestalt) build that gets easily over 800 foot fly speed with maybe max 15-17 move actions per turn by level 20. Oh and all of this is tactical not overland movespeed just to be clear, and additionally completely ignores using the run action, charging, time stop, and other gimmicky things. These are just normal moves.

So at any rate, if you're interested, I can lay out what I have so far and give some tips. This thread's been inactive for about 3 weeks, so I'll check back for any response in a few days.

Oh, and here's a link to the official published Swiftblade prestige class you asked about, an important edition to the build:
Prestige Class: Swiftblade -- Haste Personified

 

[Eman Resu]

I really like thae Swiftblade class, if anything looks like fun!

Yes I would be interested in how to build a move BUT no warforged and we have commonly retired pc's in the mid teens somewhere? Only bypasssing 18th level once.

 

[vageta31]

That link is great as I've perused it before. Was going to bring up that a simple way is the quick trait if you don't mind the negatives. Much easier than dipping barb, and you can make up for the 1hp loss pretty easily. Not a feat so it's an easy addition. Travel domain is also the obvious choice even though it's temporary. Full movement on a swift action so you can full attack, or standard attack then move back out of range is godly. Lasts 10 rounds and refueled by turn attemps (costs 2).

 

[kridily]

Can do.

Alright, I’ll start by answering your specific questions (although some have already been answered).

• Simply put, RAW, a Monk’s fast movement is an enhancement bonus, as is the Scouts. That’s just the official ruling.
• Yes these bonuses stack. This is in general how bonuses work, as officially as I know: bonuses from the same source do not stack (ie. If you have a speed bonus from the spell haste, you can’t have it cast on you again for an additional bonus). Bonuses do not stack if they are the same type of bonus from a different source, no matter the source (ie. Haste is a +30 enhancement bonus to all speeds, and Expeditious Retreat is a +30 enhancement bonus to land speed only. These do not stack, because they are both enhancement bonuses. If you have multiple bonuses of the same kind, you take the highest). Also as a general rule, you can’t take two different effects of the same name from different sourcebooks (for example you can’t stack the effects of the “healing armor” from the Magic Item Compendium, and the “healing armor” form Oriental Adventures. You must choose one or the other version for your campaign). The exception to this is if the effects with the same name are from different sources within the game, rather than from different sourcebooks. So a Barbarian’s “Fast Movement (EX)” does stack with the Scout’s “Fast Movement (EX)” because one is an unnamed bonus (the barbarian just flat increases the racial base speed), and the other is an enhancement bonus. The Scout’s and Monk’s fast movement class features do not stack though because they are both enhancement bonuses to land speed, nor do they stack with the spell haste (though the spell would increase land speed by up to +30 (or up to double racial base) if that’s the highest enhancement bonus, and would still increase all other movement speeds you already have), nor would it stack with any magic item that give an enhancement bonus to land speed, et cetra. Unnamed bonuses from the same source never stack as mentioned (ie, you can’t enchant a weapon with the eager attribute out of the Magic Item Compendium multiple times to stack the bonuses), but the same unnamed bonus from a different source does stack (for example, dual-wielding weapons each with eager would give stacking bonuses to initiative and damage rolls). Also note that these are only general rules. Always read the effect description to see if there are any exceptions (namely, the enhancement bonuses to speed granted by the Swiftblades Swift Surge (Ex) stack with Haste). Also note that different types of speed are treated differently when it comes to bonuses, so an enhancement bonus to land speed only will stack with an enhancement bonus to fly or swim or burrow or racial base speed only, but any enhancement bonus (like haste) that affect ALL movement speeds do not stack with these.

The different types of bonuses I am aware of are unnamed or untyped, enhancement, competence, insight, morale, sacred, and profane. There could be more.

• I’ve already given you a link to Swiftblade
• The granted power from the celerity domain is essentially the same as a Barbarian’s fast movement. It’s an unnamed bonus to land speed and stacks with everything. Your character’s land speed just is ten feet faster.
• Catfolk and Centaur (RotW) are two that was already mentioned with a base land speed of 40ft. The Bariaur (MotP, PlrH), and Shadowswyfts (PlrH) also have base 40 land. Note that Catfolk, Bariaur and Shadowswyfts all have LA+1 and the Centaur has an LA+2, so think carefully about picking any of these. Hound Archon,and Avoral Guardinal (PlrH) both have base land speed 40 feet and the latter has a fly speed of 30 feet with poor maneuverability. Both fly speed and maneuverability improve with level. Due to the unusual level adjustment you’d need to talk with your DM about a PC friendly progression for the characters abilities if you wanted to play as those last two). I couldn’t find any races with base speed above 30 and no LA.
• I’ll cover spells and feats and all below

Specifics to follow, but I figure this is enough to post for now. And as a side note, I meant that Warforged isn't a race particularly built for speed. I picked that for my character for other reasons, but if I really wanted a quick character, there are better options.


(MoTP) = Manual of the Planes
(PlrH) = Planar Handbook
(RotW) = Races of the Wild

 

[kridily]

As promised, round one of specifics

Rather than listing a specific build, I’ll just lay out lots of options that you can consider individually yourself. NOTE:: Following many things will be a short acronym in parenthesis, ie. (PHB). These are the acronyms for the item’s sourcebook. All acronyms are referenced in a key at the bottom of the post.

RACES: Anything with a base land speed of 40 is a great start (see my previous post). Playing as a Xeph (xPH) is another option, because even though they only have a base 30 land speed, they have the burst supernatural ability which is really great for speed, and best of all no LA.
Burst (Su): Three times per day, a xeph can put on a burst
of speed to increase her speed by 10 feet, plus 10 feet per
four character levels beyond 1st, to a maximum increase
of 30 feet at 9th character level and higher. These bursts
of speed are considered a competence bonus to the xeph’s
base speed. A burst of speed lasts 3 rounds.

So at level nine that’s a +30 to all speeds for 9 rounds per day, and this is the only thing I know to give a competence bonus to speed. For max speed though, I would suggest a race with a 40ft base because you can get the Burst ability a few other ways, and because of the Blade Dancer Prestige class. More on both of those later.

BASE CLASSES: Ignore Scout and Monk if you really want speed. Their fast movement is an enhancement bonus, and if you want to be a swiftblade, you need haste cast on you most of the time, and that’s better (and doesn't stack).
Barbarian (PHB): at 1st level you get +10 unnamed bonus to land speed in certain conditions.
Battle Dancer (#DC): Originally from Dragon Magazine Issue #159, this class gets a +10 unnamed bonus to all speeds in all conditions at 4th level. This increases to +20 at 10th level and +30 at 15th level.
Cleric (PHB): The class itself won’t actually increase your speed, but one level will give you access to the celerity domain granted power, which will increase your base land speed by 10ft. It also gives you turn/rebuke attempts which will be very useful later. If you pick this option, be sure to make Fharlanghn (God of Roads and Travel) your patron deity. This will also be important later.

PRESTIGE CLASSES:
Battle Dancer (#DC): Originally from Dragon Magazine Issue #159, this class gets a +10 unnamed bonus to all speeds in all conditions at 4th level. This increases to +20 at 10th level and +30 at 15th level.
Aerial Avenger (#DC): Originally from Dragon Magazine Issue #319, this class gets a +10 unnamed bonus to all speeds in all conditions at 3rd level. This increases to +20 at 8th level.
Fleet Runner of Ehlonna (#DC): Originally from Dragon Magazine Issue #283, at 1st level you get +10 unnamed bonus to land speed in certain conditions (identical to and stacks with Barbarian).
Shaper of Form (#DC): Originally from Dragon Magazine Issue #326, at 1st level you get +10 unnamed bonus to land speed in all conditions.
Blade Dancer (OA): This class is FANTASTIC for speed. Your racial base land speed doubles in the first level, and by 10th level triples!! This is why you want a race with a 40ft. base speed (look at the last column). It advances as shown in the table below.
________________________________
|Blade Dancer|Racial Base Speed|
|__Level__|_20ft. 30ft. 40ft. |
| 1st-3rd | 40ft. 60ft. 80ft. |
| 4th-6th | 45ft. 70ft. 95ft. |
| 7th-9th | 55ft. 80ft. 105ft.|
|__10th___|_60ft._90ft._120ft.|

Swiftblade (Published online; see previous post for link): At 4th level, you gain a +10 foot enhancement bonus to all of your modes of movement during any round in which you move at least 10 feet. At 10th level, this bonus increases to +20 feet during any round in which you move at least 20 feet. These bonuses stack with the bonuses gained from the haste spell.
Stoneblessed (RoS): The stoneblessed prestige class doesn’t specifically increase speed, but what it does do is make you more like another race, and can give you that races abilities. Stoneblessed has given templates for turning more gnomeish, dwarven, or goliathesque, but says in the adaptation section, "This prestige class--or one like it that you make yourself--is a way to give racial abilities based on specialized training or cultural immersion first, saving spell-like abilities and more obviously magical or biological abilities for the 3rd (and highest) level of the prestige class." It’s a great 3 level dip for any character because it specifically states that a 3rd level stoneblessed is considered a member of the race to which she is bonded for all effects related to race, good and bad, and meets any racial prerequisites for prestige classes and feats as if she were a member of her bonded race. The capstone, as shown in the examples, is usually a spell-like ability, extraordinary ability, or some other racial trait. With your DM’s permission, you can adapt this class in order to get the Xeph’s supernatural Burst ability (in addition to other cool stuff), which is why I suggested you skip that as your character’s actual race.

Character Options: You’ll always want to take two flaws as a 1st level character, in order to get two extra feats. Traits and Flaws were introduced in Unearthed Arcana, or you can look them up at http://www.d20srd.org/

Traits: The Quick trait (UA) is a must, giving you +10 base land speed.

Templates:
Feral Creature (SS): +10 base land speed and tons of other awesome stuff for LA +1. You can take this at 1st level, or any other way you can fit it into your campaign.
Dark Creature (ToM): This increases all forms of movement by +10ft and lots of other goodies. Normally this is LA +1, but you can actually get the template from a continuous collar of umbral metamorphosis (ToM) for a mere 22,000gp and no LA.
Shadow Creature (LoM): This is straight up FANTASTIC. The template is LA +2 but completely worth it. In addition to a ton of other awesome stuff, this multiplies the base speed of all of your forms of movement by 1.5x!!!!! Now this can be really tricky to figure out exactly what to multiply. In general follow this rule: Only Permanent, Nonmagical effects are affected by the 1.5x increase. These include base racial speed, continuous extraordinary abilities, feats with continuous speed boosts, templates, grafts, and continuous class features. It should exclude virtually all magical speed boosts or temporary effects. Even persistent spells that specifically increase base speed or magical items with continuous speed boosts are not affected. The template speeds up you, not spells or items on you. But if you’ve been keeping track, almost everything I’ve listed so far in this post falls under the affected category. If you’re unsure, ask you DM for a ruling. Note: the easiest way to apply this template to your character is to almost die from the strength drain of a Shadow. Basically, you’d need to be drained of strength by the Shadow, and then become paralyzed and fall to the floor. If you’re not careful, you’ll turn into a shadow under the enemy Shadow’s control in 1d4 rounds so use caution when trying this!! Your party will need to kill the enemy shadows before you fully transform, and only then they will need to cast lesser restoration on you, or use some other method to bring your strength score back up to positive. Depending on the stage of transformation (and DM ruling) you could apply the Dark, Shadow Spawn, or preferably, the Shadow Creature template to your character as a result of this encounter.

Grafts: The only one I know of as of yet is the Silthilar graft “Extended Legs” (LoM). This increases your base land speed by 5 feet.

Feats:
Animal Devotion [Domain] (CC): You may activate this ability once per day as a swift action. For the next minute (10 rounds), you get the power of a specific animal from the list. If you pick the Cheetah’s Sprint, you gain a +5-foot sacred (if your deity is good or neutral) or profane (if your deity is evil) bonus to your base land speed. The value of this bonus increases by 5 feet for every four character levels you possess (maximum +30 feet at 20th level). If you pick the Hawk's Flight, then at 5th level and every five levels thereafter, you gain a +5-foot sacred (if your deity is good or neutral) or profane (if your deity is evil) bonus to your base fly speed (maximum +20 feet at 20th level). If you have the ability to turn or rebuke undead, you gain one additional daily use of this feat for each three daily turn or rebuke uses you expend. You can have multiple abilities active simultaneously, however you can still activate only one ability per swift action. Also note that you can take this feat even if your patron deity doesn’t offer the animal domain on his or her domain list.
Travel Devotion [Domain] (CC): You may activate this ability once per day as a swift action. For the next minute (10 rounds) you may to move up to your speed as a swift action. This essentially allows you to convert your swift action into a move action (though not a move-equivalent action; you have to move if you choose to activate the effect). If you have the ability to turn or rebuke undead, you gain one additional daily use of this feat for each two daily turn or rebuke uses you expend. Also note that you can take this feat even if your patron deity doesn’t offer the travel domain on his or her domain list.
Dash (CW): +5 unnamed bonus to all speeds in certain conditions.
Speed of Thought [Psionic] (xPH): +10 insight bonus to all speeds in certain conditions.
Improved Speed [Monstrous] (Drac): +20 fly speed and +10 to all other speeds, both unnamed bonuses. Note: this feat requires the Dragon Type to take. There are a few ways to get this without actually being a dragon. The first is a ritual from the Savage Species supplement that simply gives your character the dragon type in addition to any other types the character possesses, but this costs a lot of gold and experience. A cheaper alternative is the second level sorcerer spell Essence of the Dragon (RotD), which “confers the dragon type on the touched creature.” You can create an item to continuously give you the effect of this spell using the guide to estimating the price of magic items found in the Dungeon Master’s Guide on Table 7.33 (note the second footnote of the table when determining the price of items with continuous spell effects).
Sprint (KoKPG): +10 unnamed bonus to all speeds during combat. It does not apply to long marches or standard adventuring speed. The bonus begins the first round of combat and lasts for a number of rounds equal to your constitution score (not modifier), or until combat ends. After that you must wait 1d8 minutes before you may sprint again.
Air Heritage[Heritage] (PlrH): Your fly speed increases by 30 feet (up to a maximum increase equal to your normal fly speed). If you don’t have a fly speed as a racial ability, this benefit has no effect. There are a few ways to get natural wings. Three levels of stoneblessed (RoS) could give you the wings (at the very least vestigially). You could become a Dragonborn of Bahamut (a racial template from RoTD), keep your original races base land speed, and additionally get dragon wings; by 6th level, you’ll have a 30ft fly speed. Actually, with the DM’s permission, you could get rid of your original race’s LA (like say the Catfolks) by doing this (that’ll make sense if you read into it). If you used a ritual (SS) to get the dragonblood subtype at character creation, or just took the feat Dragontouched (DraM) as one of your extra feats from a flaw at first level (one level dip in Dragonfire Adept (DraM), or becoming a Dragonborn of Bahamut will also give you the feat), than you can take the Dragon Wings feat (RotD) at first level, and at 6th take Improved Dragon Wings at sixth level to get you the same effect. Honestly though, becoming a Dragonborn of Bahamut is the best and easiest way to do this, is a great racial template, and if your DM rules it can get rid of an LA, DO IT!!

That’s all for classes and character options I’ve found that improve land and fly speeds. My character is unconcerned with burrow and swim speeds, so I’ve never looked into those. The next post (which might be in a day or two) will cover magic items, armor enchantments, and spells that improve land and fly speeds. One key item I will mention grants your character a fly speed equal to your character’s land speed with perfect maneuverability. That indeed means that all bonuses mentioned that affect land speed will also increase your fly speed! That last statement technically has one exception depending on your DM’s ruling, but I’ll cover that then.
Also, in one or two posts, I’ll explain how to get up to 12+ Move actions in a round.

If neither you nor anyone in your group has access to some or all of these sourcebooks (as probably is the case), you can probably find most of these online. Googling * [insert name of sourcebook here] D&D pdf site:mediafire.com * or * [insert name of sourcebook here] D&D pdf site:4shared.com * will probably get you what you’re looking for. If you find one you like though, consider going out to your local hobby shop and picking up a hardcopy for 20 bucks and supporting Wizards.

By the way, ALL BONUSES MENTIONED IN THIS POST STACK!!

(#DC) = Dragon Compendium Volume 1
(CC) = Complete Champion
(CW) = Complete Warrior
(Drac) = Draconomicon
(DraM) = Dragon Magic
(KoKPG) = Kingdom's of Kalamar Player's Guide
(LoM) = Lords of Madness
(OA) = Oriental Adventures
(PHB) = Player's Handbook 3.5e
(PlrH) = Planar Handbook
(xPH) = Expanded Psionics Handbook
(RoS) = Races of Stone
(RotD) = Races of the Dragon
(RotW) = Races of the Wild
(SS) = Savage Species
(ToM) = Tome of Magic
(UA) = Unearthed Arcana

 

[Particle_Man]

Half-Dragon template lets you double your base movement speed while flying but there is a cap at 120 feet.

 

[kridily]

Half-Dragon template lets you double your base movement speed while flying but there is a cap at 120 feet.

Unfortunately, that's only for a a half dragon that is large or larger. A medium or smaller creature with that template does not have wings, and most PC's are medium. It's an inherited template too, so permenant enlarge person wouldn't work, you'd actually need to have been born a large race (barring an expensive ritual from Savage Species). A base fly speed at double your base land speed is nice, but the 120 cap is the problem, and it's only at average manuverability at that. It's pretty simple to actually get a base land speed >= 120 at later levels, but if you wanted good fly speed at 1st level and liked the other things about Half-Dragon, there are feats in the Monster Manuals and Draconomicon, and some spells in Races of the Dragon that will bump up your manuverability, so maybe those and Half-Dragon wouldn't be bad if you don't mind the +3 LA and being a large creature.