Muhlatimic Dragons

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Fiery amigo!

It seems like the dragons should be at least 5 levels higher to be the appropriate divine rank, if the strongest dragons are ancients.If ancient Epics are level 21-30, then they are at most Demi-Gods. If ancient Cosmics are level 31-40, then they are at most Greater Gods, and so on for the other types. So the dragons are one rank below their divine tier.

Remember that Levels 21-30 (Hero-deity to Demigod) are for Elites.

Thus Solo Level 30 is equal to a Demigod on its home plane or an Intermediate God outside their home plane.

 

[FieryDragonLord]

True Dragon = Gargantuan size Ancients, 5 ages
Epic = Mega-size Ancients, 4 ages
Cosmic = Giga-size Ancients, 3 ages
Eschatolic = Tera-size Ancients, 2 ages
Muhlatimic = Peta-size Ancients, 1 age

Of course the question then is what size to make all the preceeding ages...?

I see your point on the age categories. You can just make each preceding age one size category less.

However, I believe the sizes are too small. For example, Tera, which I think is supposed to be planet-sized, is too small for reality destroying beings, in my opinion.Why not make it two size category increases for each higher breed? If every 5 levels is one size category increase, then if the dragons are 10 levels higher, shouldn't they be 2 sizes bigger, instead of 1?

Then it will be:
True: Gargantuan
Epic = Giga
Cosmic = Peta
Eschatolic = Zetta
Muhlatimic = Xona

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Personally I think the sizes are fine.

Mega size sounds right for most of the Epic Dragons -- Bahamut and Tiamat, etc. being Godzilla size seems appropriate.

As for the planet sized Eschatolics - they'll probably be essentially Eternal level beings, so their physical forms might be more like their power 'condensed' into a smaller form. But if Time Lords can be only Macro-Tiny in 3.5, it sounds fine to me.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey FieryDragonLord mate!

I see your point on the age categories. You can just make each preceding age one size category less.

However, I believe the sizes are too small. For example, Tera, which I think is supposed to be planet-sized, is too small for reality destroying beings, in my opinion.Why not make it two size category increases for each higher breed? If every 5 levels is one size category increase, then if the dragons are 10 levels higher, shouldn't they be 2 sizes bigger, instead of 1?

Then it will be:
True: Gargantuan
Epic = Giga
Cosmic = Peta
Eschatolic = Zetta
Muhlatimic = Xona

Well, I don't think monsters necessarily need to be ridiculously sized in order to 'be' powerful.

To me, Epic Dragons are analogous to monsters like Godzilla, so I wouldn't want to arbitrarily skip sizes.

Also, (super) sizes in 4E are going to mean a lot more than simply different math. They require a whole new approach, multiple stat-blocks and so forth.

That said, I wouldn't necessarily rule it out. I think I had Metatron planned as Planet (Tera) sized. So Time Lords would be bigger than that.

 

[FieryDragonLord]

Yes, monsters don't NEED to be ridiculously sized to be powerful, but I think bigger sizes are more appropriate for such creatures.

I agree with you two on that Epic dragons should be Mega-sized, and I would be happy with Giga-sized Cosmic dragons. It is only the Eschatolics and Muhlatimics I find too small. If Metatron is Tera, then Eschatolics would have to be at least Peta-sized, because I think dragons should be as big or larger than creatures of the same rank. Maybe the higher breeds could have two sizes (after being wounded to a certain degree they could grow larger?).
True:Gargantuan
Epic: Mega
Cosmic: Giga/Tera
Eschatolic: Peta/Exa
Muhlatimic: Zetta/Yotta

By the way, if Muhlatimics are Yin and Yang dragons, could there be a Wuji and Taiji dragon?

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

How big is Giga sized anyway? Mountain/asteroid size? Would Mars' moons (about 18 and 10 miles in longest dimension) be Giga sized?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

Yes, monsters don't NEED to be ridiculously sized to be powerful, but I think bigger sizes are more appropriate for such creatures.

I agree with you two on that Epic dragons should be Mega-sized, and I would be happy with Giga-sized Cosmic dragons. It is only the Eschatolics and Muhlatimics I find too small. If Metatron is Tera, then Eschatolics would have to be at least Peta-sized, because I think dragons should be as big or larger than creatures of the same rank. Maybe the higher breeds could have two sizes (after being wounded to a certain degree they could grow larger?).
True:Gargantuan
Epic: Mega
Cosmic: Giga/Tera
Eschatolic: Peta/Exa
Muhlatimic: Zetta/Yotta

I am honestly not sure what to do for the best at the moment. Though I do agree the dragons should be generally bigger than the standard creatures for those tiers - however, there is no real standard. Monsters are not automatically Tera sized just because they are Sidereal...though the biggest Sidereals will be Peta-sized.

Immortal
Mega = Castle sized
Giga = Mountain sized (e.g. Seraphim, Sandalphon)

Sidereal
Tera = Planet sized (e.g. Metatron)
Peta = Star sized (e.g. Demiurge Abraxas, Pseudonatural Algol/Maadim)

Eternal
Exa = Solar System/Nebula sized (e.g. Time Lord)
Zetta = Galaxy sized (e.g. High Lord)

Supernal
Yotta = Supercluster size
Xona = Universe size

By the way, if Muhlatimics are Yin and Yang dragons, could there be a Wuji and Taiji dragon?

I don't see why not, although are Wuji and Taiji necessarily opposites?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Khisanth amigo!

How big is Giga sized anyway? Mountain/asteroid size? Would Mars' moons (about 18 and 10 miles in longest dimension) be Giga sized?

Roughly speaking its:

Mega = Gargantuan x10
Giga = Gargantuan x1000
Tera = Gargantuan x1,000,000
Peta = Gargantuan x10,000,000,000
etc.

So the difference between each new size increases by a factor of 10. (x10, x100, x1000, x10,000 etc.)

 

[Alzrius]

I don't see why not, although are Wuji and Taiji necessarily opposites?

A very brief check on Wikipedia seems to suggest that, as Wuji is "ultimateless" or "void," indicating a total lack of everything. By contrast Taiji seems to be "ultimate," or the sum total of everything.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

So ... what's the boundary between Gargantuan and Mega-size then? 100 feet? 200 feet?

How big is the 4E tarrasque supposed to be... still 80 feet long?

If so Mega at x10 would be ... 800 feet long, comparable to a large ship
Giga ... 80,000 feet long or about 15 miles, comparable to the moons of Mars (~18 and ~10 miles long)
Tera ... 80 million feet, about 15,000 miles, significantly bigger than Earth (~8000 miles)
Peta ... 800 billion feet, about 150,000,000 miles, comparable to the distance from Mars to the Sun (average ~140 million miles)