Musing on Conan themes in RPGs

[MGibster]

Last year I read the first issue of The Savage Sword of Conan that was originally published in 1974. In the first story, it's the middle of the night on the streets of some city when Conan runs into a group of thugs attacking some dude. The thugs cut the dude's hand off and when they try to kill Conan they're the ones who are ganked. Conan spies a sweet looking ruby ring on the severed hand and thinking it's his lucky night goes to retrieve it when he notices the hand is moving. He quickly surmises that the ring must be magical in nature and basically says, "%#$@ it! This thing is obviously magic and I want nothing to do with it." At this point in the story, Conan is desperate for coin, it's the entire reason he went out in the night to begin with, but no matter how desperate he is for some coin he still won't mess with that ring. It's pretty much the opposite of what you expect in D&D.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Yeah I think the mistrust of magic is another theme I like. (And the inspiration behind the original Barbarian class in Dragon magazine way back when.)

 

[MGibster]

One thing about Conan is that he isn't always heroic in the sense that we're used to these days. In "The Jewels of Gwahlur," Conan is faced with the choice of saving the titular jewels, worth a king's ransom, or saving a slave girl named Muriela. Without hesitation Conan saves Muriela and expresses no regret at his decision which is pretty heroic by our standards. But then in "Queen of the Black Coast" and "The Tower of the Elephant" Conan is a pirate and a thief. And he's not necessarily the kind of pirate or thief who just goes after the bad guys either.

 

[cbwjm]

Last year I read the first issue of The Savage Sword of Conan that was originally published in 1974. In the first story, it's the middle of the night on the streets of some city when Conan runs into a group of thugs attacking some dude. The thugs cut the dude's hand off and when they try to kill Conan they're the ones who are ganked. Conan spies a sweet looking ruby ring on the severed hand and thinking it's his lucky night goes to retrieve it when he notices the hand is moving. He quickly surmises that the ring must be magical in nature and basically says, "%#$@ it! This thing is obviously magic and I want nothing to do with it." At this point in the story, Conan is desperate for coin, it's the entire reason he went out in the night to begin with, but no matter how desperate he is for some coin he still won't mess with that ring. It's pretty much the opposite of what you expect in D&D.

I sort of feel that it's Conan stories that impacted the original 1e barbarian and their hate of magic.

 

[dbm]

Civilization vs. Savagery: Conan's superiority is often attributed to his savage nature. However, in an RPG I would want both options to be viable, for different reasons. I would like to see one's "Savagery vs. Civilization" be represented on a spectrum, with each direction on the spectrum having pros and cons that get stronger the farther you are from the center.

Wanting something hard coded is fair enough, however I feel this is a well-solved problem in RPGs. In a skill based, points based system if a character has invested points in survival skills they don’t have those points available to spend on savoir faire. Similarly, if they have spent lots of points on strength, combat skills, and so on they won’t have points to spend on mental stats and knowledge skills etc.

The only trick is balancing the costs of these in the system and making sure the game requires them in play a commensurate amount.

 

[dbm]

my main influences were to be the works of Howard as well as The Savage Sword of Conan

I might try to pitch my Conan campaign again and see where it goes. Do I use Modiphius or just do Savage Worlds?

The clue is right there in the title…

 

[xoth.publishing]

Another spin-off, similar to this Star Wars thread.

Some themes I would like to see implemented mechanically in a Conan RPG:

• Civilization vs. Savagery: Conan's superiority is often attributed to his savage nature. However, in an RPG I would want both options to be viable, for different reasons. I would like to see one's "Savagery vs. Civilization" be represented on a spectrum, with each direction on the spectrum having pros and cons that get stronger the farther you are from the center.

The way I implemented the "Civilization vs Savagery" concept in my World of Xoth setting was through different "cultures". Since every player character in a sword & sorcery campaign is basically a human, each must choose a culture which is a package of both benefits and drawbacks, and some roleplaying suggestions. The first version (for Pathfinder at the time) is here: The World of Xoth » Blog Archive » Cultural Archetypes and the current version (for 5E) can be found in the free Player's Guide PDF downloadable from this page: xoth.net publishing - sword and sorcery roleplaying adventures

For reference, I'll include some quotes from the Player's Guide here:

In a typical sword and sorcery campaign such as the World of Xoth, the traditional demihumans do not exist, and the majority of player characters and non-player characters are human. The following broad cultural archetypes are used to further distinguish between characters who would otherwise have the same racial abilities.

The cultures in this chapter are inspired by the works of Robert E. Howard (1906-1936), creator of Conan the Barbarian and the most influential writer of swords and sorcery literature. Howard was of the opinion that history was cyclic; that cultures and civilizations arose, became decadent and corrupt, and then fell as they were conquered by another people, typically «the barbarians» from the edges of civilization, who would themselves eventually grow complacent and corrupt.

Howard discussed the topic of «barbarism versus civilization» at length in his letters to fellow author H. P. Lovecraft (1890-1937). This is arguably a far more interesting theme to explore in your game than the simplistic «good versus evil» alignment system provided by the core rules. The description of each culture includes information about how the members of that culture view themselves, how they are viewed by others, and some ideas on how to roleplay a stereotypical member of a given culture.

GMs may (or may not) choose to award roleplay according to stereotype. In any case, individual player characters should feel free to ignore the suggestions in favor of a unique concept.

Note that when history is cyclic, today’s Savages are tomorrow’s Civilized, and today’s Civilized are tomorrow’s Degenerates, and so on. That means, of course, that this Player’s Guide just happens to present a snapshot of various races and their cultural stage at a certain point in history; the underlying premise is that any race is fated to undergo these cycles of history. Always check with your GM for campaign specifics.

 

[xoth.publishing]

One thing about Conan is that he isn't always heroic in the sense that we're used to these days. In "The Jewels of Gwahlur," Conan is faced with the choice of saving the titular jewels, worth a king's ransom, or saving a slave girl named Muriela. Without hesitation Conan saves Muriela and expresses no regret at his decision which is pretty heroic by our standards. But then in "Queen of the Black Coast" and "The Tower of the Elephant" Conan is a pirate and a thief. And he's not necessarily the kind of pirate or thief who just goes after the bad guys either.

Exactly! And I will argue that this approach, with complex character motivations, is much more interesting than the typical "good vs evil" D&D fantasy adventure. I've never been a fan of the alignment system, and for my World of Xoth setting, first published back in 2008, I threw out alignment and never looked back: The World of Xoth » Blog Archive » Undetectable Alignment

 

[Yora]

I pitched a Conan campaign to my players last year and my main influences were to be the works of Howard as well as The Savage Sword of Conan published by Marvel from 1974 through 1995. I don't remember a whole lot of Scooby style "It was old man Withers" moments, but the supernatural elements were certainly a little more subdued than what we're used to with D&D.

There is one time there's actually someone unexpected hidden under a cloak and that reveal makes the whole situation increase in weirdness rather than reduce it.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Last year I read the first issue of The Savage Sword of Conan that was originally published in 1974. In the first story, it's the middle of the night on the streets of some city when Conan runs into a group of thugs attacking some dude. The thugs cut the dude's hand off and when they try to kill Conan they're the ones who are ganked. Conan spies a sweet looking ruby ring on the severed hand and thinking it's his lucky night goes to retrieve it when he notices the hand is moving. He quickly surmises that the ring must be magical in nature and basically says, "%#$@ it! This thing is obviously magic and I want nothing to do with it." At this point in the story, Conan is desperate for coin, it's the entire reason he went out in the night to begin with, but no matter how desperate he is for some coin he still won't mess with that ring. It's pretty much the opposite of what you expect in D&D.

Yes, but...

It's this concept that is also the origin of the ... interesting ... original Barbarian in AD&D that was clearly inspired by these stories.

The first official barbarian class in AD&D was in Unearthed Arcana, and had a class restriction of ... refusing to use magic items or associate with magic users, and getting XP for destroying them. Admittedly, they did get to use magic items at higher levels, but still.

It was an OP class that also was nearly unplayable if you applied the rules.