Musing on Star Wars themes in RPG

[Laurefindel]

EDIT: i just found this thread: I'm ready for a new Star Wars RPG, which is more than à propos. I decided not to delete this one and orient it solely on themes rather than systems.

Somebody (cant remember who EDIT: it may have been @Bill Zebub) in another thread said they wished for a Star Wars RPG that was build on the principles of the saga the same way TOR was built on the themes of LotR. As much as I appreciate the genesis game or the fan-made 5e update of the 3e-inspired Star Wars saga or the old WEG version, all of them are relatively generic rpg with ´Star Wars’ slapped on the cover. And perhaps that’s fine but for the sake of this thread, let’s say we’re up to make a new rpg or modify an existing one…

So if there were to be a rpg based of the themes that make Star Wars what it is, what would these themes be and how could they be represented mechanically?

Off my head, I could see something with serenity/anger or passion as opposing forces each granting their own benefits and limitations. Lineage is also a big deal. In some way or another, every major Star Wars character has an ancestor/master to live by or against, be they biological (Luke-Anakin) or metaphorical (Din Jarin-Mandalore’s ways). Han Solo is remarkable by not having any, because solo, and that makes him stand out. So somethings should to be done about that.

Any ideas?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Some of The One Ring could translate well, to start. Hope and Shadow are easy to map to dark side influence and well, Hope.

I think you’ll see strong disagreement on some points.

Eg, Should the resolution mechanics resolve success/failure, or should they assume success and resolve something like how you feel about winning?

IMO, the hero’s just do not always win every fight or other challenge in Star Wars, and the contests feel like skill against skill, power against power, faith against faith, so you absolutely must use resolution mechanics to determine success.

So I think feelings and such should be pillars of the game alongside action resolution, PCs have to be able to fail and also be able to make bad decisions in order to win, CharGen should be very focused on archetypes and narrative, and abilities should be relatively broad.

 

[pemerton]

I've thought of using the Green Knight RPG to run a Star Wars scenario, with Force/Dark Side in place of Honour. What I haven't worked out is how to do space ship fights in a party-oriented system.

 

[Yora]

The combat system should support big battles in which you don't have to track every individual stormtrooper or TIE fighter and don't make a roll for every shot that each combatant takes. It's much too slow and granular for what should be a few cool stunts in the foreground against a background of chaos, blaster shots, and explosions.

I feel the original Apocalypse World approach to encounter resolution could be a great starting point. The players' goal is to "clear the building" or "make their getaway" which takes place in a couple of narrative beats rather than running down the hit points of all their opponents.

Also, the threat of failure should not be character death. Party members in Star Wars stories pretty much never die. Instead defeat means major setbacks that invalidate the old plan and require coming up with a completely new plan to attempt reaching the goal.

 

[DevL]

If you want to lean into a character’s passions dictating their actions in various circumstances, then basing a new Star Wars RPG on Pendragon sounds viable to me. The step from mytholigical arthurian knights acting in accordance with or against virtues to that of galactic force sensitives doing the same doesn’t seem farfetched to me.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The combat system should support big battles in which you don't have to track every individual stormtrooper or TIE fighter and don't make a roll for every shot that each combatant takes. It's much too slow and granular for what should be a few cool stunts in the foreground against a background of chaos, blaster shots, and explosions.

Yes, though they should also be able to turn the tide of battle and determine the outcome through thier actions and choices.

I feel the original Apocalypse World approach to encounter resolution could be a great starting point. The players' goal is to "clear the building" or "make their getaway" which takes place in a couple of narrative beats rather than running down the hit points of all their opponents.

While I agree with not relying on hit point attrition, I don’t think it fits SW to have challenges be a couple story beats where you aren’t using the resolution mechanic to determine success in fighting. The best SW fights have back and forth, and are contests of skill, power, and dedication to ideals/faith in the force/etc.

Also, the threat of failure should not be character death. Party members in Star Wars stories pretty much never die. Instead defeat means major setbacks that invalidate the old plan and require coming up with a completely new plan to attempt reaching the goal.

This I agree with for the most part, but I also don’t think this is an area where a game needs to hew perfectly to the stories, because in the stories there is always the possibility of death. There is a danger of representing watching a Star Wars rather than representing being a hero in that galaxy, which I think would miss the point of SW roleplaying.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If you want to lean into a character’s passions dictating their actions in various circumstances, then basing a new Star Wars RPG on Pendragon sounds viable to me. The step from mytholigical arthurian knights acting in accordance with or against virtues to that of galactic force sensitives doing the same doesn’t seem farfetched to me.

Does Pendragon allow for characters alongside the knights, or would one have to build out the game’s support for non force users?

 

[DevL]

Does Pendragon allow for characters alongside the knights, or would one have to build out the game’s support for non force users?

Pendragon’s focus is fully on knights, but the core system ought to be equally applicable to non-force users. Is your morally gray scoundrel prone to rage and vengance? There are mechanics for that.

In fact, force powers would have to be a sub-system that’s added as there’s little to no magic in Pendragon (at least in the upcoming 6E AFAIK) that’s intended for player characters to weild. Which seems rather fitting given the scarcity of force users in the Star Wars galaxy.

 

[Laurefindel]

Does Pendragon allow for characters alongside the knights, or would one have to build out the game’s support for non force users?

Main characters in Star Wars are pretty knightly, and scoundrels are mostly scoundrels in their background or upbringing. Once we, the audience, start following them, they become charismatic leaders, high ranking officers, and shine because their virtues outweigh their vices. Nobility of character/action is an important part of Star Wars heroes. Han Solo isn't a knight when we encountered him in the Cantina for the first time, but figuratively, he is one at the conclusion of Return of the Jedi (although he is no longer one in Force Awakens).

That's something that has been eluding me in Star Wars games; how much emphasis should we put on the scoundrel part of characters, and the senior knight part of their aspiration. Game i've been in typically include lowly type characters (opportunistic scoundrels and pragmatic bounty hunters) and noble, oftentimes rigid ones (aristocratic senators and Jedi knights), but give little tools for ascending characters beyond pure roleplaying. Scoundrels often remain scoundrels and noble characters often start that way off the bat. Perhaps that's fine...

Now that I think of it, i think i'd like a rpg that can scale this ascension and rewards it somehow, even if the virtues of one character drastically differ from that of another character.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Lineage, or lack thereof, is an interesting idea.
And somewhat related there's destiny. Or, again, lack thereof.

And maybe the two are combined? Your character is somewhere on the spectrum between strong lineage/destiny (Luke) and not (Han). And mechanically each end of the spectrum comes with some sort of benefit and penalty. ???

@Yora's comment about big battles also resonates. One way to handle that is pacing: more mooks keep entering the battle on subsequent rounds. I tend to design encounters like that anyway, but some kind of systemic way to do that that felt "Star Warsy" would be cool.