Mutants and Masterminds - Move up to 2nd edition?

[Morrow]

So I purchased Mutants and Masterminds days - no, mere hours - before the 2nd edition was announced. Needless to say I'm harboring some resentment toward the gaming gods. Anyway, it looks like I may finally have the opportunity to run a M&M game. Understanding that I'm only using the core book (I have no plans to pick up any of the supplemental material at this time), what are the pros and cons of sticking with 1e vs. picking up 2e? Is 2e enough of an improvement in terms of playability that I should just suck it up and shell out another $30, or am I going to do just fine with 1e? Thanks.

Morrow

 

[Stormborn]

I would be interested in an answer to the same question, although I didn't buy it right before 2e was announced, I have the core book, freedom city, nocturnals, and noir. Bought mainly just for my own reading enjoyment. But now that the anti-superhero person has left our group I might actually get to run a super hero game. I'm mainly interested in whether or not 2e is easier to make and use PCs for people who may not be that mechanics savy. Upgrade?

 

[Krolik]

Well 2E fixes a lot of rules that most of us found broken. Powers as Extras could be a nightmare in 1E when you needed to include Extras and Flaws. The entire power-construct system has been overhauled with Alternate Powers now being the major driving force in the game - and it is a change I find most agreeable. The Combat Save Chart has been changed to include an additional category, so that you do not have characters knocked out after only one hit due to a bad roll. The Skills have been altered and regrouped so that buying them becomes easier as well. A major change is that you can play Martial Arts characters without needing to buy Powers - of course you can buy Powers if you want them. The Feat and Power Feat system has been redefined to make much more sense. And then there is the inclusion of Trade-offs which allows you to make unique characters that do not all look like cookie-cutters.

I would say the only Con of 2E is that it is a tad more crunchy then 1E. Some Powers, like Shapeshift, take a little more effort and pre-planning to use in the game. But with that added crunch comes a whole new level of added versatility as well. 2E remains just as quick and open-ended as 1E but adds more versatility while cleaning up all the broken rules people complained about. I personally feel that the game is several steps better then 1E.

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

From my perspective, any of the problems that people had with M&M1e were addressed and corrected in 2e.

I believe there's a review by one of the ENWorld (ir)regulars that goes into a lot more detail, so I'll just hit the highlights.

Powers-as-extras are gone, helping to reign in some of the more over-the-top character builds. Instead, you pay for "extra" powers tacked onto the main power (such as variations of a Blast power) by paying 1pp for the Alternate Power feat, but the trade off is you can't use both powers at the same time, only one or the other.

Strength and Dexterity no longer provide a bonus to attack or defense rolls.

Feats are reduced to 1pp each, and several of them have multiple levels.

Skills are now bought at a rate of 4 skill ranks per 1pp, making Batman-type/skill-heavy heroes much more feasible.

Super-Attributes are removed entirely, using the regular d20 Attribute scale. Super-Strength is still around as a power, but the function is entirely reworked (gives a bonus to Strength for lifting and to grapple checks).

Powers are no longer strictly limited to your hero's PL (some can wildly exceed your PL. For offensive and defensive powers, you can choose to trade-off in favor of either attack bonus vs. damage bonus (for offense) or Defense bonus vs. Toughness save (for defense).

The powers in and of themselves are a lot more versatile, and the rules for Devices and Equipment have been greatly improved upon.

Also, characters are no longer strait-jacketed to 15pp per PL, making it possible to build an effective Superman that's not over PL20 (I've seen Supes builds w/ PL as low as 14 on the Atomic Think Tank).

I started w/ 1e M&M, and I can't recommend switching over to 2e enough.

 

[scholz]

I was in an similar position. But I did buy M&M2E (Some friends were playing it). I am glad I did. It is overall a much tighter system, it makes more sense, and lets you make characters easier than 1E. 1E is a perfectly servicable game, but 2E is better in several ways.

 

[Ben Robbins]

The PL trade-off rules in MM2 allow a greater range of characters while maintaining balance. Bricks and ninjas can all co-exist happily, each with their pros and cons, without requiring lots of scrutiny from the GM.

It's also super easy to come up with stats for a threat, whether it's a monster, robot or simplified supervillain. Want a PL 10 combatant? Just pick how to balance the attack/damage and the defense/toughness and you're done.

ninja PL 10: attack 15/damage 5, defense 15/toughness 5
brick PL 10: attack 5/damage 15, defense 5/toughness 15

And so on.

 

[Elric]

I'll also side with "go to 2e." I'm currently running an M&M 2e campaign for a group of players that either haven't played M&M 1e or haven't played M&M since playing 1e a year ago, and it's going well. One player who had never played M&M at all made a very well-designed character (only one mistake, rules-wise) the day after borrowing a rulebook, with no input at all from me.

The PL limits and how they interact with the tradeoff rules is one of the most overlooked concepts for people initially making characters, but it's a terrific addition to the game.

 

[Henry]

SO far I've played ONE FRIGGIN' GAME of it, and I'd recommend it. It may be slightly more detailed (marginally more "mechanics crunchy") than the first one, but it's well worth it.

 

[Laslo Tremaine]

I played a 1 long running campaign in 1e that covered a number of genres and Power Levels:

• Pulp (PL 5-6)
• Mystery Men (PL 7-8)
• WWII Golden Age (PL 8-9)
• Silver Age (a la Justice League) (PL 10-11)

1st edition worked just fine for all of those settings and Power Levels, and I was especially pleased at how well it worked at the lower end of the scale.

Right now I am playing in a PL 8 Iron Age game (based on the Villians & Vigilantes universe) and we have converted to 2e. Unfortunately the conversion has not been very smooth for us. In many ways it's the same problem as the conversion from D&D 3e to 3.5. Many little things have been changed about the system. It's basically the same, so you think you know how it works, but when you go to check a rule, you find that it's been changed in a subtle way.

What do I like about 2e?
• For the most part, they got rid of super stats, now you just buy your base stat up to whatever level you want.
• Making 4 skill points per power point official.
• Divorcing Attack and Defense levels from stats (Dex does not make you harder to hit).
• PL trade-offs.
• Flat caps on PL (you can no longer max out your power, stats and feats to go above the campaing PL limit).
• Fixing powers like Invisibilty and Insubstantial.

What I don't like about 2e!
• Damage is needlessly complex now. I much prefer the 1e way of handling it.
• I think I prefer the 1e way of buying powers, although I don't hate the 2e way.
• Feats are too cheap! I don't know why they didn't keep them at 2pts per Feat.
• The way Regeneration works is just odd, too expensive, and generally squirrelly.
• A number of character concepts were more straight forward in 1e, in 2e you need to jump through a few more hoops.

Our group is very tempted to sit down and make a 1.5 edition. We just need to find the time to do it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

* Damage is needlessly complex now. I much prefer the 1e way of handling it.

I played in a 2e game last weekend, and I'd previously played in a 1e game (once)... what's the difference in the damage handling?

Cheers