My Eternal Search for a Particular Campaign/Setting/Game

[Tristissima]

What is Queer Theory?

Queer theory is a set of ideas based around the idea that identities are not fixed and do not determine who we are. It suggests that it is meaningless to talk in general about 'women' or any other group, as identities consist of so many elements that to assume that people can be seen collectively on the basis of one shared characteristic is wrong. Indeed, it proposes that we deliberately challenge all notions of fixed identity, in varied and non-predictable ways.

Queer theory is based, in part,
on the work of Judith Butler
(in particular her book
Gender Trouble, 1990).

It is a mistake to think that queer theory is another name for lesbian and gay studies. They're different. Queer theory has something to say to lesbian and gay studies -- and also to a bunch of other areas of sociology and cultural theory.

I find queer theory, defined above, extremely interesting and have tried to develop fantasy settings which take it as their model, or take it to a (perhaps il)logical conclusion. I have never been fully satisfied.

So I ask the community: Any ideas on a campaign, setting, and/or game which could best play with queer theory and with identity?

I have had someone suggest Transhuman Space, but I haven't taken a look at it yet. A friend of mine suggested that, paradoxically, a proper queer game would require a strong archetypal base, probably an out-and-out class system.

 

[Crothian]

So, you want the characters to start out completely undefined and end up defining themselves though actions? THe idea doesn't seem to work to well as this is a game and it relies a lot of definitions of character stats and ability. Now if you just mean to have cultures that support different lifestyles and try not to define people until they define themselves; I think that can easily be done in any setting.

 

[arwink]

If you can track down a copy of them, I'd probably advocate Everway or Over the Edge as good systems for this kind of thing. They have a strong narrative feel, and are well suited to the kind of exploration that queer theory tend to advocate.

 

[Turanil]

Is this to be used as a "plot device" in an otherwise regular type of campaign, or is a RPG game to be centered around that. In the latter case why? It reminds me of a friend who sometimes wants (as a DM) to use D&D to lecture us about racism or homophobia problems. As far as I am concerned, RPGs are meant to be fun, not to be lectured about something. I mean, I don't feel unconcerned by racism (my ex-wife is an Indian from Peru, and my next girlfriend -if all goes well- is from Africa), and I don't feel unconcerned about homophobia (one of my friends is a gay). However, I don't want to discuss such problem through gaming. I don't like to be lectured. I game for gaming, and when I want to think about society problems, I do it through reading books or speaking with others, but not via RPGs. Really, I would advice you to clearly know why you want to use a RPG setting based around such concern: to lecture your players? (Sorry if I sound harsh, but I am a little angry at the DM who sometimes likes to lecture us using D&D.)

Nonetheless it could be used as an interesting plot device. But I see it more as an excuse to add exotic stuff to a campaign. Like encountering an amazons tribe in D&D. But as has been already mentioned, it would fit better in Transhuman Space (a GURPS supplement, describing a setting that can be used for d20 Future, and which is about Earth and Solar system in 2100).

 

[Tristissima]

I actually already own both verway and OtE, so I guess I've got a head start. Also, the game Immortal actually did have characters start out undefined and slowly defined them over the course of the game. Unfortunately, none of them are really what I ant.

And this isn't about lecturing my players. Queer theory, to me, has a lot to say on a variety of issues, some political hotbeds, like homophobia or racism, and some not at all actually, like language. For example, when we run queer theory into the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis of linguistics (language creates/affects perception), we start to wonder if language itself is oppressive in that it, by necessity, categorizes things. Then we have to figure out what to do about that.

Sorry, I did fall into a little bit of a lecture

What I am thinking is that role-playing is a powerful thing, mostly because of its resistance to lecture. I am always looking for games that will allow me to truly explore issues like identity or heroism or hope, to get inside these thoughtforms, wiggle myself some room, and then PLAY, hopefully with something coming out with me that will broaden my understanding. Simply put, role-playing is art to me.

One of my attempts at a queer world actually had nothing to do with alternative sexualities, in fact, and had more to do with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis mentioned above. I tried to develop a world in which identity itself (basically, for the purposes of the game, all mental identity-based aspects of Cha) was a crime against nature, reality, and the gods. I had a lot of Cthulhoid fun, actually, messing around with th theologies and whatnot. The major "internal" conflict of the stting was that we can't easily communicate, survive, love, and do a lot of other fun things like that without either language or separate identities, but our identities are a lie we impose on the Nameless Shadows of reality. Something like this is what I am looking for.

Maybe we could make it a web project? Anyone interested in playing with these ideas could e-mail me at werd2thenerd AT yahoo or tristissima AT gmail.

I talk too much, please forgive me

 

[Timeboxer]

So I ask the community: Any ideas on a campaign, setting, and/or game which could best play with queer theory and with identity?

I don't know, play a Planescape game in which you require every PC to be a Xaositect?

I feel I should mention that queer theory and lots of other Western academic notions revolve around a concept of "identity" which is purely Western (for e.g., that identity or any kind of "who you are" exists), and that bias will probably inform your idea of the feel of the game. Not that this is bad, but it's probably something to keep in mind.

You may be interested in Nobilis -- it has many ties to Platonic philosophy and the idea that symbol and reality are not separable. (In Nobilis, fire isn't just "fire," as in physical combustion; it's also "fire in her eyes" and "fire of life" and "undying fire" and all sorts of other metaphors and symbols.) If you hadn't heard of it already, that is.

It reminds me of a friend who sometimes wants (as a DM) to use D&D to lecture us about racism or homophobia problems. As far as I am concerned, RPGs are meant to be fun, not to be lectured about something.

I tend to think of RPGs as an interesting place to play out some real world tensions and questions sometimes, without necessarily being moralistic. F'rinstance, in the Eberron game I'm running on and off online, I have a warforged artificer who's ended up having a rather feminine personality (she wears dresses), so I've been trying to figure out whether warforged fall in love, and if so, what sort of outcry there would be (if any) against warforged marriage.

 

[GSHamster]

I have a warforged artificer who's ended up having a rather feminine personality (she wears dresses), so I've been trying to figure out whether warforged fall in love, and if so, what sort of outcry there would be (if any) against warforged marriage.

I don't know about warforged/warforged marriage, but robot/human is a fairly well explored concept in science fiction.

As for the original question, perhaps you should adapt a sci-fi book setting to a d20 future game. The concept of 'sleeves', or bodies that you wear and can switch, is not uncommon. Good books are Kiln People, by David Brin, and Biting the Sun, by Tanith Lee.

 

[Timeboxer]

Not to thread-hijack, but:

I don't know about warforged/warforged marriage, but robot/human is a fairly well explored concept in science fiction.

This is less about the personhood of the robot -- it's not in doubt that warforged are persons, since they have souls -- than it is about the prejudices and biases against, well, people who happen to have no flesh.

 

[Terwox]

A simple idea -- everyone begins as an amnesiac doppleganger. That is, without a mind, without a true shape, without a true gender, etc. (They wake up a blank humanoid shape.)

I ran a game where the players were amnesiacs, and true neutral, and their actions determined their dreams which determined their alignments, as they realized themselves -- they were fate, and would create the fates of others, while they themselves were, well, fate. (That's convoluted and brief, but hey.)

I'm really interested where you take this idea, I for one think it's a really neat basis for a game, and I'm really curious about how you ran a campaign where having an identity was a crime against nature. Subscribed.

 

[Particle_Man]

There was an old module that started characters as 0 level nobodies and they defined their classes though their actions (1st ed., I think). But you want more than that. Hmm...There is the product "Buy the Numbers" that lets you buy class abilities with Experience Points without taking a class at RPGNow. I think someone was talking about doing the same with racial abilities. Maybe that would be closer to what you want?

Or you could pull a "Dark City" (movie: spoiler warning)

Spoiler

and have players exchange character sheets (with each other and with an NPC pool) every in-game sleep period.

Best of luck, anyhow.