My first Iron Heroes... er, umm... Hero!

[Yuan-Ti]

Weapon Bond
1. You get a lot more feats than you do traits
2. The trait only gives the bonus with one weapon, the feats do it with many weapons.

I don't see that as a huge disadvantage. 1 -- you only get 2 traits, but this one gives you the advantage of several feats... so what is your point? 2 -- unless your DM goes out of his way to annoy by taking your weapon away, this will rarely come into play.

For the example characters with ability boosting traits, are you factoring in the ability penalties they also apply?

No, good catch. I just noticed that this evening because the table only says "+2 to STR" and doesn't mention penalties. I hadn't bothered to read the entire trait descriptions for the ability boosts.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Edit: Oh, and for the armiger, drop the Shield Mastery feat and swap his Dex down in favour of another ability - Armigers want to be hit

Yeah, that occurred to me. But in that case why is Shield Mastery one of his specialties?

 

[Kaos]

Weapon Bond
1. You get a lot more feats than you do traits
2. The trait only gives the bonus with one weapon, the feats do it with many weapons.

I think all the feats that mimic these tricks (except exotic wp) have become masteries, with potential abilities beyond just swapping one stat for another. (Tactics of the Mind, for example, eventually lets you use Int as well as your strength bonus for hit/damage...) That means weapon bond doesn't really grant you the benefits of three feats.

On Armour:
Haven't seen the expected wealth yet, so I couldn't say how affordable the heavy armours really are in the long run. Speed reduction works a bit differently as well; medium reduces speed by a quarter, which works out almost the same (22' vs 20', but if you're using squares that will map out to the same for normal critters,) but heavy armour reduces speed by half (as opposed to standard, where heavy armour had the same movement penalty as medium) - so skipping over the medium armours isn't *quite* the no-brainer as it is in standard D&D.

 

[Capellan]

1 -- you only get 2 traits, but this one gives you the advantage of several feats... so what is your point?

My point is that traits and feats are different resources. Comparing what a trait gives you to what a feat does is pointless, since they aren't supposed to balance against each other. Weapon Bond is good, but taking it prevents you from taking other traits that are also good, and which can't be mimicked with feats.

Compare Weapon Bond to other traits. That's what it is designed to be balanced against. Not feats.

2 -- unless your DM goes out of his way to annoy by taking your weapon away, this will rarely come into play.

Evidently you play in a campaign where Sunder and Disarm aren't used very much, and where monsters never grapple you, depriving you of your ability to use your bastard sword

 

[Dalamar]

Considering that IH characters don't need to collect each and every magical trinket from their enemy to stay inside the wealth guidelines, I think sundering might start seeing more use.

 

[amethal]

Aren't all IH PCs using their own special 24-pt buy?

I've been toying with a Weapon Master build myself (based on what I know...). Try this on for size.

Combine the the Mighty Build and Weapon Bond traits to allow him to use a large bastard sword (favored weapon) in one hand and tie it to a high Dex for attack & damage bonuses. You also have the benefit of having a weapon that is both finesse and power!

All of my "practice" characters have weapon bond at the moment, but it might say more about me than it does about the rules ....

Even my slinger (archer) has it, to allow him to use dex for damage with his sling. I'm assuming that's legal ......

My weaponmaster has the same traits above, but has 18 dex and uses dex as the relevant ability for his (large) 2 bladed sword. At first level he's +4/+4 to hit and doing 2d6+6 damage.

I have a horrible feeling that you really, really, really don't want to be flat footed in Iron Heroes. The high dex helps here, but I'm thinking perhaps I need to invest in improved intiative as well.

Also, since fights are potentially so deadly, and nobody has any stuff worth taking even if you do win, I can see a chance meeting between two rival groups of adventurers becoming a very polite affair in Iron Heroes.

 

[Benben]

Although I still don't see an argument for using CON bonus to hit and damage...

It's the opposite of attacking with Charisma (Flair!). You attack with True Grit.

 

[A'koss]

It's the opposite of attacking with Charisma (Flair!). You attack with True Grit.

I can see as a kind of "Terminator-style" warrior. With a high Con you never tire and you attack in a measured, but relentless manner grinding your opponents down.

 

[A'koss]

I have a horrible feeling that you really, really, really don't want to be flat footed in Iron Heroes.

No, you really, really don't.

The high dex helps here, but I'm thinking perhaps I need to invest in improved intiative as well.

Yes, you really, really should.

Also, I'd highly recommend maxing out your spot, listen and sense motive skills. Some Dodge (particularly those to mess up flanking attacks) and Combat Expertise aren't bad ideas either.

Also, since fights are potentially so deadly, and nobody has any stuff worth taking even if you do win, I can see a chance meeting between two rival groups of adventurers becoming a very polite affair in Iron Heroes.

Heh...

 

[A'koss]

Just for fun... a 20th level Weapon Master.

Grenloke

Class: Weapon Master
Level: 20
Hit Points: 251
Reserve Points: 251

Strength: 14
Dexterity: 19
Constitution: 18
Intelligence: 12
Wisdom: 12
Charisma: 12

Fort Save: +24
Ref Save: +24
Will Save: +21

Traits:
1. Weapon Bond – Large Bastard Sword proficiency and use Dex bonuses with it.
2. Mighty Build – Use large weapons without penalty.

Feats:
L1. Combat Expertise 1: Up to -5 on attack roll to add up to +5 on your defense.
L1. Improved Initiative: +4 Init.
L2. Blind fighting 1: No loss of active defense vs melee, ½ the move penalties, 2 rolls vs miss chance.
L4. Two-Weapon Fighting 1: -4 penalty for dual large bastard swords.
L6. Two-Weapon Fighting 4: Second attack at -5.
L8. Improved Critical 4: Crit 17-20 x2 for large bastard swords.
L10. Two-Weapon Fighting 6: Cannot be flanked.
L12. Combat Expertise 7: If using CE, you may spend 4 tokens on a single opponent that lose their AD bonus to AC if they miss you.
L14. Two-Weapon Fighting 7: Third attack at -10.
L16. Improved Critical 8: Crit 15-20 x2 for large bastard swords.
L18. Two-Weapon Fighting 8: Rend if both weapons hit at least once. + Base Dmg + Dex.
L20. Improved Critical 10: Auto confirm any threat roll.

Skills: (4+Int) x4, 4+Int

Athletics Group:
- Climb: +25 (23 RANKS, +2 STR)
- Jump: +27 (23 RANKS, +2 STR, +2 SYN)
- Swim: +25 (23 RANKS, +2 STR)
Tumble: +29 (23 RANKS, +4 DEX, +2 SYN)
Sense Motive: +24 (23 RANKS, +1 WIS)
Spot: +24 (23 RANKS, +1 WIS)
Listen: +24 (23 RANKS, +1 WIS)

Class Abilities:

Favored Weapon: Large Bastard Sword

Feat Mastery:
1. Primary: Finesse
2. Secondary: Power

Weapon Pool: For each successful hit on a single target, earn 1 token which can be used against that target alone.

Weapon Styles:

1. Expert Strike: For each token spent, gain a +1 bonus to either your attack roll or damage on your next attack. Bonus cannot exceed your level.
2. Mighty Blow: 3 Tokens to re-roll all damage, including bonus damage, taking the highest.
3. Weapon Agility: Every token spent grants a +2 bonus to base attack checks and ability checks as part of an attack action or defending against one. No more than 2x level.

Weapon Expertise:

1. Master’s Accuracy: You may spend 5 tokens to re-roll an attack.
2. Penetrating Attack: As a free action, for each token spent the target losses 1 pt of DR vs your attacks until your next action. Max ½ level.
3. Flurry of Strikes: Spend 5 tokens and gain an extra attack at your highest BAB. This and all other attacks though suffer a -4 penalty to hit.

Weapon Supremacy:

1. Armed Feint: Make Base Attack Checks and use 2 tokens to cause target to lose their active bonus for the remainder of your action. Opposed roll as normal.
2. Masterful Attack: By spending 10 tokens, make a full attack as a standard action.
3. Vicious Riposte: After a foe hits you, but before determining damage, spend 6 tokens to gain a bonus to an attack. The bonus equals the highest amount of damage taken between spending your tokens and your next action. Apply it to any attack on your next action.

Favored Defense: +3 AC

Weapon of Legend: +2 Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate Checks.


Armor: Masterwork Studded Leather

Defense: 34 (+17 AD, +3 FD, +4 DEX)
Passive Defense: 10
DR: 1d3

Move: 30’
Init: +7


Weapons: 2 Masterwork Bastard Swords, Large (Favored Weapon)

Attack (2W): P: +26/+21/+16/+11 (+25 LVL, +4 DEX, +1 MSTWK, -4 TWF)
Attack (2W): S: +26/+21/+16 (+25 LVL, +4 DEX, +1 MSTWK, -4 TWF)
Attack (1W/T-H): P: +30/+25/+20/+15 (+25 LVL, +4 DEX, +1 MSTWK)

Damage (2W/1W): P: 2d8+4 + Rend (2d8+5 if both weapons hit, see feats) / Crit: 15-20 (x2)
Damage (2W): S: 2d8+2 + Rend (2d8+5 if both weapons hit, see feats) / Crit: 15-20 (x2)
Damage (2-H): 2d8+6 / Crit: 15-20 (x2)

Note: All threats auto-confirm. Possible other extra damage – see feats, class abilities, skills.

Other weapons: Masterwork Composite Longbow (+2 Dmg bonus), Masterwork Arrows, 2 Adamantine Grapple-daggers (10’ and 30’) (special device), etc, etc.

I tried to build him with an eye on survivability rather than just pure damage output. I could have gone the finesse route and just stacked up the sneak attack damage, but I like the visual of this concept better. Note the factors that go towards protecting him from flanking, blindness/darkness and noticing ambushes. Also, tried to gear him towards removing the active defense bonuses of his foes while not losing them himself. Since the weapon master is geared towards getting tokens on successful attacks, the two weapon route is the most logical choice.

Enjoy!

(editted for proper Dex bonus...)