My first take at a 4e god

[Pssthpok]

Hey UK,

I've swallowed my gripes on 4e, I suppose. At the end of the day, the streamlining is well-worth the cost of exploit limits and haphazard marking mechanics.

After reading some threads here on ENWorld about gods, levels, etc, I've kitbashed a god from the African/Caribbean pantheon and I'm curious what reaciton you (or any others) might have to Ogoun, the god of war and iron and fire:
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Ogoun --Level 36 Solo Brute
Gargantuan immortal humanoid --XP 275,000
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Initiative +31
Senses Perception +27; truesight 10
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Halo of War (fire, thunder) aura 20; any creature entering or starting their turn in the area suffers 25 points of fire and thunder damage (or 50 points of fire and thunder damage when Ogoun is bloodied)
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HP 1608; Bloodied 804; see divine discorporation and rhythm of iron
AC 47; Fort 51; Ref 47; Will 49
Immune attacks by characters below level 20, disease, fire; Resist 20 weapon
Saving Throws +5
Speed 10, fly 10 (hover), teleport 10
Action Points 4
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Iron Panga (standard; at-will) * Fire, Weapon
Reach 4; +39 vs. AC; 4d10+15 (crit 18-20: 8d10+55) fire and weapon damage.

Rhythm of Iron (standard; at-will) * Fire, Weapon
Reach 4; Ogoun makes two Iron Panga attacks; when bloodied, Ogoun makes three Iron Panga attacks.

Soul Burn (standard; at-will) * Fire
Ranged 10; +37 vs. Will; 3d10+11 fire damage and the target is stunned until the end of Ogoun’s next turn.

Spit Hot Fire (standard; recharge ) * Fire
Close blast 6; +35 vs. Reflex; 5d10+15 fire damage and ongoing 20 fire damage (save ends).

Storm of War (standard; recharge ) * Thunder
Close burst 5; only targets enemies; before the attack, Ogoun can shift his speed; +35 vs. Reflex; 8d10+15 thunder damage and target is pushed 10 and slowed (save ends).
Miss: Half damage and target is knocked prone.

Blood Drunk (when Ogoun drops an opponent to 0 hit points or fewer; at-will) * Healing
Ogoun recharges a used attack power and regains 402 hit points

Decapitate (free, when Ogoun hits a creature with an attack that has the weapon keyword; recharge ) * Weapon
The creature takes an extra 8d10 damage; if the triggering attack is a critical hit, this ability deals an extra 80 damage instead.

Divine Discorporation (when first bloodied; encounter)
Ogoun “discorporates” unless a specific condition is met.

Immortal Resistance (when Ogoun gains an effect that a save can end; at-will)
Ogoun makes a saving throw. On a save, Ogoun is unaffected by the effect.

Scorch Armor (when Ogoun hits an armored target with an attack that has the weapon keyword; at-will) * Fire, Weapon
The target takes a cumulative -4 penalty to AC (save ends).

Threatening Reach
Ogoun can make opportunity attacks against any opponent within reach.

Warrior Spirit (minor, at-will)
Ogoun ends any marks currently active on him and can shift his speed.
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Alignment Unaligned Languages All
Skills Athletics +36, Bluff +34, Endurance +34, Insight +32, Intimidate +34
Str 36 (+31) --Dex 28 (+27) --Wis 28 (+27)
Con 32 (+29) --Int 20 (+23) --Cha 32 (+29)

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Cool, good choice: a pretty obscure deity. (Well, here, anyway; I suppose in parts of the Caribbean not so much).

He looks SCARILY powerful... but then, he is a god, and higher level than (I think) any officially statted WotC creature. (I could be missing something - haven't read every 4e book by a long shot - but the highest I remember is Tiamat (Level 35 Solo) from the Draconomicon.) Really need to watch out for the massive healing on that Blood Drunk power, that could really change the tide of a battle. Awesome.

I like the thematic iron/fire abilities, too.

 

[Pssthpok]

Hi, yeah... he's obscure and powerful
I'm thinking of taking a shot at Samedi next, if Ogoun keeps getting good reactions.

I think the Blood Drunk power puts in mind a terrific urgency on the leaders in the party to keep people from dying. +25% health on a kill is a mean power, and if he couples it with Decapitate, he could get into snowball effect where one slip up from the party leads to a crushing defeat. Other than that sort of setup, Ogoun has little else that really defines him as a monster. Sure, he can break up a tight-knit formation in a heartbeat, just don't let him taste blood...

Here an image I googled that conveys some of the feel I was aiming for:

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey UK,

Howdy Pssthpok matey!

I've swallowed my gripes on 4e, I suppose. At the end of the day, the streamlining is well-worth the cost of exploit limits and haphazard marking mechanics.

You know it makes sense amigo.

After reading some threads here on ENWorld about gods, levels, etc, I've kitbashed a god from the African/Caribbean pantheon and I'm curious what reaciton you (or any others) might have to Ogoun, the god of war and iron and fire:

Looks fantastic.

As regards his level. Level 36 Solo is very powerful. Basically where I'd personally be putting someone like Thor. I must admit if theres one mythology I am probably not as familiar with as I should its maybe African Mythology. Although I am sure I did a close study of those gods about 5-6 years ago and wrote down what I thought was a likely Pantheon - those pages must be about here somewhere.

Though last year I did buy all three 1st Edition AD&D Supplements on ebay of Monsters of Myth and Legend. In my opinion book one is good, book two is poor and book three is fantastic. Book two for me really undersold the gods and thats unfortunately the one where the African Mythology (and Ogun) are located.

If I ever get around to the Immortals Index: African Mythos I'll have to include Ogoun.

Anyway, I digress, back to the design. As I have mentioned, I'll be including design parameters for creating 4E statblocks at the back of the Vampire Bestiary. For me, I have no major gripes with your Ogun design at all. If I was being hypercritical I'd say watch the power count (13 is fairly high) and maybe try to mix up the action types (standard, move, minor) a tad more. But I did really love the progression of melee - ranged - close blast - area burst. So to be honest I wouldn't change those at all.

Goes really well with the Cannibals I have in the Vampire Bestiary too...though they have their own gods of course.

As regards the number of powers. I would use 8 as baseline for Solo monsters with maybe an extra one per tier above Heroic. Of course there is no hard rule here, and you could argue should Auras and Double Weapon Attacks really count towards the total - meaning your 13 was spot on.

Actually one minor point I just remembered while glancing over the stats again. You know Ogun could deal simultaneous Fire and Weapon Damage (in 4E) and that to avoid any damage you would then need to be immune to both.

Second minor point. At Level 36 he'd probably have +8 weaponry, meaning 8d10 + 55 on a crit.

 

[Pssthpok]

Howdy Pssthpok matey!



You know it makes sense amigo.

Yeah, I was being stubborn, no doubt about that.

Looks fantastic.

As regards his level. Level 36 Solo is very powerful. Basically where I'd personally be putting someone like Thor. I must admit if theres one mythology I am probably not as familiar with as I should its maybe African Mythology. Although I am sure I did a close study of those gods about 5-6 years ago and wrote down what I thought was a likely Pantheon - those pages must be about here somewhere.

At 36 Solo he's roughly a 45th-level creature, right? I figured that the low-end of Greater for a transatlantic god of war and fire and iron (three major staples of civilization) would be high, but justified.

If I ever get around to the Immortals Index: African Mythos I'll have to include Ogoun.

Definitely.

As I have mentioned, I'll be including design parameters for creating 4E statblocks at the back of the Vampire Bestiary.

Ah, great. Looking forward to that... should be soon, right?

As regards the number of powers. I would use 8 as baseline for Solo monsters with maybe an extra one per tier above Heroic. Of course there is no hard rule here, and you could argue should Auras and Double Weapon Attacks really count towards the total - meaning your 13 was spot on.

Cool. I cribbed some stuff from Vecna that I thought every god should have (pre-effect saves, immunity to non-epics, discorporation) and everything else was arranged so as to not create too much overlap in terms of use.

Actually one minor point I just remembered while glancing over the stats again. You know Ogun could deal simultaneous Fire and Weapon Damage (in 4E) and that to avoid any damage you would then need to be immune to both.

Simultaneous... from the Rhythm of Iron? I know the aura can only be blocked by a resistance of at least 25 to both fire and thunder... maybe I'm not brushed up enough, but I take it that you mean Rhythm of Iron can deal weapon on one hit, fire on another, and itself is a single attack?

Second minor point. At Level 36 he'd probably have +8 weaponry, meaning 8d10 + 55 on a crit.

31-35 +7, 36... ah, so he would, so he would.

Thanks, Krust. I might take a crack at Samedi sometime... see where it takes me. 4e monsters allow for so much more creativity than 3.5.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

At 36 Solo he's roughly a 45th-level creature, right?

Yep.

I figured that the low-end of Greater for a transatlantic god of war and fire and iron (three major staples of civilization) would be high, but justified.

Makes sense ... I didn't consider that the widespread-ness (is there a better word?) of his worship would be involved, but now that you mention it, yeah it makes sense.

(One gets into issues of whether gods' powers should be rated relative to their own pantheon, or more broadly. Should all pantheon heads be Greater -- or should Odin be a low-end Intermediate at best, and Zeus a 120 HD Greater God only steps away from Siderealhood, because the Norse gods in their mythology are generally on a much more human/vulnerable scale than the Greek ones? Personally, I would do the latter, but others might be unhappy with an Odin who is only a match for Demogorgon, and Thor as an equal to Tiamat...)

Cool. I cribbed some stuff from Vecna that I thought every god should have (pre-effect saves, immunity to non-epics, discorporation)

I believe the discorporation, and probably the non-epics, are traits of all 4e gods ... the traits are found in Tiamat's writeup in Draconomicon IIRC.

(U_K may change this for the Legendary and Immortal Tier rules though.)

Simultaneous... from the Rhythm of Iron? I know the aura can only be blocked by a resistance of at least 25 to both fire and thunder... maybe I'm not brushed up enough, but I take it that you mean Rhythm of Iron can deal weapon on one hit, fire on another, and itself is a single attack?

I think he means like the Wizard encounter power Frostburn, that deals "3d6+Intelligence cold and fire damage".

4e monsters allow for so much more creativity than 3.5.

How do you mean? I would say the mechanical options are more restrained in 4e.

 

[Pssthpok]

Yep.
I believe the discorporation, and probably the non-epics, are traits of all 4e gods ... the traits are found in Tiamat's writeup in Draconomicon IIRC.

(U_K may change this for the Legendary and Immortal Tier rules though.)

Makes sense.

I think he means like the Wizard encounter power Frostburn, that deals "3d6+Intelligence cold and fire damage".

I only see one place where Ogoun deals simultaneous damage, and it's fire and thunder (the aura). Krust mentioned fire and weapon, and the only thing that stands out is Rhythm, which is multiple attack rolls in a single standard action.

How do you mean? I would say the mechanical options are more restrained in 4e.

Well, you don't have to build them on a per-level basis, I mean. I don't have to decide... "Okay, Ogoun is a level 36, so how many feats is that? How many daily and encounter powers, etc." I just let my mind arrive at some ability and then bounce it off the DMG (or in this case, Krust's website) tables for damage. If an ability doesn't do damage, it's time for even more creativity, like Scorch Armor or Warrior's Spirit - ways to bend the game under the weight of godlike power.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Well, you don't have to build them on a per-level basis, I mean. I don't have to decide... "Okay, Ogoun is a level 36, so how many feats is that? How many daily and encounter powers, etc." I just let my mind arrive at some ability and then bounce it off the DMG (or in this case, Krust's website) tables for damage.

Oh, yes, that's true.

I was thinking in terms of the weirder one-off abilities being harder to do; things like winterwight's Blightfire, the neh-thalggu's extract brains, the seraphim's lethal presence (can't remember what that ability is called at the moment), etc.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya matey!

Yeah, I was being stubborn, no doubt about that.

At least you came to your senses.

At 36 Solo he's roughly a 45th-level creature, right? I figured that the low-end of Greater for a transatlantic god of war and fire and iron (three major staples of civilization) would be high, but justified.

Its pretty fair. I just didn't know enough about Ogun's status to know where he would 'sit' in the pantheon.

Ah, great. Looking forward to that... should be soon, right?

The editing will take a few weeks longer than I anticipated, but we are only talking a few weeks. I'll have an update and preview on the website this week (probably Saturday).

Cool. I cribbed some stuff from Vecna that I thought every god should have (pre-effect saves, immunity to non-epics, discorporation) and everything else was arranged so as to not create too much overlap in terms of use.

Not sure the whole immunity to non-epics is necessary (if they are silly enough to think they can beat the god - just have him squash them), but the others make sense.

Simultaneous... from the Rhythm of Iron? I know the aura can only be blocked by a resistance of at least 25 to both fire and thunder... maybe I'm not brushed up enough, but I take it that you mean Rhythm of Iron can deal weapon on one hit, fire on another, and itself is a single attack?

No, I just mean that when he hits with an attack that is both fire and thunder damage, so you need to resist both or take the damage. From your wording it looked like you were saying he could deal either fire or weapon, when theres no need to do either when he can do both.

Thanks, Krust. I might take a crack at Samedi sometime... see where it takes me.

Cool beans.

4e monsters allow for so much more creativity than 3.5.

I'd never be one to say I told you so.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Khisanth dude!

Oh, yes, that's true.

I was thinking in terms of the weirder one-off abilities being harder to do; things like winterwight's Blightfire, the neh-thalggu's extract brains, the seraphim's lethal presence (can't remember what that ability is called at the moment), etc.

They just take a bit more creative thinking.

I was reading some more of Planes Below earlier today and noticed one of the monsters has an ability that deals Ongoing equal to half the targets bloodied value (save ends) which I thought was pretty cool.

Remember also there is no reason why you can't create a new Condition or Energy Type.

Having fun at the moment tweaking the Chrono-Vampire section with as many different time based mechanics I can muster.

One really interesting power can really make a monster stand out. So I try and have most monsters do at least one thing thats unique...its not always possible when there are over 100 stat blocks, but its a goal worth aiming for.

Examining video games (and no I don't mean WOW) can sometimes reveal how they have differentiated powers.

There is a monster called the Doom Wight in the Vampire Bestiary. It has this power that inflicts a status called "Doomed". Whereby the target loses one healing surge per round (save ends). Now I didn't realise this at the time, but I must have subconsciously lifted this idea from Final Fantasy VII (or a similar game, stopped playing them at #9). A few days ago I was checking out some FF XIII video clips on youtube (was interested to see how they handled the Hecatonkeres) and noticed one of the other bosses 'Dooms' a character (whose hit points constantly drain). So its not exactly the same mechanic, but its the same principle.