My friend wants his Archer build improved...

[Dandu]

Greater Manyshot allows you to hit up to 4 different targets as a standard action. Full attacks net you more shots than that. If you're engaging in an archery duel against an army of 300 orcs at high levels, you'll be able to pull off full attacks consistently, making Greater Manyshot unnecessary.

 

[kingius]

There's supposed to be a limit of 4 attacks per round on base attack bonus (+16 to hit). He's got to be about 16th level to attain that, he should be able to get that capability much earlier with greater many shot, if he is a fighter.

 

[Dandu]

And at level 16, if you use Rapid Shot, you are shooting 5 times per round as a full attack action.

 

[Sekhmet]

[MENTION=85123]kingius[/MENTION] You use Volley for such an occasion.

 

[kingius]

I'm not familiar with Volley, it sounds almost 4th Edition.

Greater Many Shot will get you those extra target attacks at lower levels than waiting for the Base Attack Bonus to kick in, which is an /advantage/ at lower levels, but it is campaign dependent. If all the DM does is go... kobold to orc to bugbear to ogre to troll to hill giant to... (etc) then Greater Many Shot would not be of much use. This is how many beginner DM's work and also how many lazy published modules work as well.

The big problem with a lot of answers on these boards is that they are advice based upon theory that assumes that people are creating characters of 16-20th level. This is not how most people play, however. Most people begin at level 1 and may possibly end up at 16-20, but many never get that far. This helps to explain why seemingly suboptimal feats can be a good choice; it depends on the point at which they are obtained and on the campaign in question.

 

[Jimlock]

So you are saying there is no advantage to having a bow which automatically adjusts to the user's strength score (by which I mean, it adds the user's strength modifier to damage) as opposed to a composite bow which only does so for a predetermined strength score?

No. I'm saying that you can profit from your FULL str with a simple composite bow without spending a feat for it.

Moreover, I'd keep in my Efficient Quiver (something any decent archer SHOULDN'T live without) a couple more composite longbows with the appropriate bonuses IN CASE my Str gets damaged, fatigued etc. Quite cheap, and still far better an investment than spending a feat.

Well, I guess if the archer just doesn't increase his strength you have a point, but I for one do not see increasing strength as a "waste of time". Archers need bonus damage to punch through DR and end fights quicker. A Rogue gets Sneak Attack, for example, and a Fighter uses his Strength.

I don't see what better one can get than a belt of Giant Str. That's a +4 or +6 enhancement bonus. And the composite bow should include the bonus damage. If the party's wizard, druid or other spellcaster invests in the archer's strength BEFORE the archer can get his hands on such a belt (meaning the early levels).... then they are simply doing something wrong.



And one more thing ->

I mentioned it earlier, but it seems it went unnoticed:

Bone Bow, Frostburn page 75:

The bow has a long, thickg spike protruding from both ends; this spike is used to brace against a solid object (either the ground or an overhanging protrusion or ceiling) to aid in pulling the bow's string.

What I gather from the above text (and the sketch on page 77), you need some sort of object to brace the spike against OR some sort of surface to stick the spike in, in order to use the bow properly.

Since this bow is found in Frostburn, my first thought was ice. You either stick in on the icy ground... or the icy ceiling above and then you can use it. Of course you can brace it against some object, (even if you are not on some frosty terrain) or even stick it in the soil, perhaps even in the sand... or whatever surface/object have you that can hold one of the two spikes.

Despite the above possibilities, there are plenty of surfaces you CAN'T use the bow with. Natural Rocky surfaces, tiles of all kinds (both of which compose the majority of dungeons)... are enough to make my point...
And, last but not least, you can't shoot while air born. Even when you are not under the effect of the fly spell any beast you ride on should come with the appropriate equipment so as to hold the bottom spike (if that is even possible)...

Now Depending on how severe the DM is, INHO it comes down to two options:

1-If one of the two spikes isn't held fast by an appropriate object/surface you cannot use your bow at all.

or...

2-If one of the two spikes isn't held fast by an appropriate object/surface you cannot profit from STR while shooting the bow.
(This second options comes in many colors: a) No STR bonus b) No STR bonus & a -4 on the Attack Roll c) ..or just a -4 on Attack Rolls)



....I'd love a scene in the game where some northern barbarian clan is standing upon a frosty hill with their Bone Bows stuck in the ice and ready to fire down their opposition with bone piercing shots... that I'd love...

but an adventurer with such a bow? with all the variety of terrains he has to deal with? ....No I don't see that...

And it requires an entire Feat you say?

No thanks.

 

[Dandu]

Moreover, I'd keep in my Efficient Quiver (something any decent archer SHOULDN'T live without) a couple more composite longbows with the appropriate bonuses IN CASE my Str gets damaged, fatigued etc. Quite cheap, and still far better an investment than spending a feat.

How cheap are multiple +4 composite longbows?

I don't see what better one can get than a belt of Giant Str.

The Polymorph spell.

Despite the above possibilities, there are plenty of surfaces you CAN'T use the bow with. Natural Rocky surfaces, tiles of all kinds (both of which compose the majority of dungeons)... are enough to make my point...

Tiles and rock have Hardness and HP. If you're strong enough, you just stab through them with the spike. If you're stronger than the strongest man to ever live, what with your Belt of Giant Strength and whatnot, you can probably make this happen.

And, last but not least, you can't shoot while air born. Even when you are not under the effect of the fly spell any beast you ride on should come with the appropriate equipment so as to hold the bottom spike (if that is even possible)...

I find it amusing how aerial combat is so much more likely than getting strength buffs.

If you think the Bone Bow is not good for your games, feel free to not use it. No one's forcing you to. If you do not think it is good for the OP's games, well, unless you have more insight about his campaign than I do...

 

[Jackinthegreen]

The MiC specifically lets you upgrade named/unique weapons, because not being able to upgrade them is just plain stupid. Go to town with that energy bow.

The Elvencraft modification from Races of the Wild lets you use a shortbow as a club, or a longbow as a quarterstaff. It's 300gp so it won't work at first level, but it's good for stuff later on and it's official material, unlike most of the stuff at dandwiki. The reason most guides don't have the long blade bow is because it is homebrew, and the Elvencraft modification exists that entirely nullifies the exotic weapon in the first place.

Dragon Magazine 310 has the Targetteer fighter variant, which can get Dex to damage on all ranged attacks, a version of Rapid Shot that trades -5 to all attacks for an extra 2 attacks, and gets two exotic ranged weapon proficiencies for free at first level. See if your friend can retrain into that class.

The Dead Eye feat also grants Dex to damage, and if your friend is so inclined to use crossbows, Crossbow Sniper adds another 1/2 dex to damage. The only issue will be crit immunes, but weapon crystals can solve some of the problems with those.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

My archer build was a tad crazy.

top 2 score should be dex (the highest) and strength, who needs health when you're in the back shooting?

base class fighter, DO NOT MULTICLASS THIS, the bonus feats are needed.
Go human.

Exotic Weapon Prof Great Bow (complete warrior), Point Blank shot, Precise shot.

Rapid shot is actually useless at 1st level, as you will most likely be missing both shots, precise allows you to give close overwatch.

This is assuming you're a human, if not wait till 2nd level for precise.

The next feats should include weapon focus Greatbow, rapid shot (eventually), weapon specialization and the great form of specialization and focus.

The other feats you get should boost saves, as the pesky archer is always targeted by spells since the lich's minions cant hold him off like the melee fighters.

When you can, go Kensai, this sounds weird but using the bow as your focused weapon, you can build it to be the most powerful weapon ever.
This is where a multiclass level works, using say Wizard, getting you concentration while getting you a familiar, again, use this to boost saves.

With Kensai, build your weapon a crit machine.
+1 (level 1)
+1 keen (level 2)
+1 keen thundering (level 3)
+1 keen thundering shocking burst (level 4/5 as shocking burst is a +2 bonus)
After this, you might want to just boost the +1 to a +5, leaving that last for something thats a +1 bonus, I went with flaming, but frost works too, corrosive (from MIC), something to do energy damage.

So when you finish all 10 levels of Kensai, you're doing 1d10+1d6+1d6+str(gotta get a mighty composite too)+5 crit 19-20/x3 dropping extra dice on the crit.

Using rapid shot and your multiple attacks, you will rain down arrows like a MG42 rained down death on American GI's during WWII, especially to critable things and things with energy vulnerabilities.


This was how I did my build, and he was able to, in one round, kill a fire giant at level 10, as an archer.


Also, stick to light armor, you should have a high dex so why not? Plus being able to move around helps you get better shots, plus you'll want to be using skills such as climb to get a higher vantage point to overlook the battlefield.




So again, this was my build, worked amazingly for me.

 

[Jimlock]

How cheap are multiple +4 composite longbows?

Cheaper than a feat.

The Polymorph spell.

Of all the things possible with the polymorph spell, spending it on an archer so as to boost his str has to be one of the worst uses ever...

Come on... Admit it!

Tiles and rock have Hardness and HP.

???

If you're strong enough, you just stab through them with the spike. If you're stronger than the strongest man to ever live, what with your Belt of Giant Strength and whatnot, you can probably make this happen.

Before making any hasty decisions, I suggest you ask the spike first whether it can live through the impact.

As for your Hardness and HP remark, let me clarify: It is irrelevant. You are not asked to break the rocky surface underneath your feet, you are asked to shove a spike in it.

...But in case someone can truly pull this off... then... what can I say... He's probably wasting his talent being an archer.

I find it amusing how aerial combat is so much more likely than getting strength buffs.

You should. Flying is fun.

If you think the Bone Bow is not good for your games, feel free to not use it. No one's forcing you to.

I know. I'm only arguing about how it's a bad choice overall.