My self indulgent reason for loving issue 354

[Thotas]

A while back, there was a thread on which one subtopic was modrons, and whether or not they were completely stupid or not. At one point, I myself tossed out the idea that, while they were much too stupid to make an appearance in my campaign, I might be able to stomach them if they were rewritten to be Constructs, rather than Outsiders.

It was very pleasing to me when, shortly thereafter, Mousferatu aka Ari Marmel, who gets money for writing up gaming material, really liked the idea. Still, I never thought it would be official ...

... until today! Right there on page 40! Now, I don't know if someone at Paizo got the idea from me or whether it's a case of great minds running along the same track. Don't care, either. I just think it's cool to see one of my ideas become "100% official content". Even if some gremlin is sitting in the back of my brain, kicking me and saying, "See, you should have pitched that article to Eric!".

 

[Razz]

It'll take some time getting used to, but a lot of us would agree that they should've been Outsiders with Construct traits as a special quality.

Mainly because all the other representatives of the alignment axis (Archons, Yugoloths, Devils, Demons, Slaadi, Eladrin, Guardinals, and Rilmani) are also Outsiders. Also, as Constructs the modrons are gimped from a lot of things:

---BAB is Medium instead of Good
---All saving throws are poor instead of all saving throws being good
---2 skill points/level instead of 8 skill points/level
---Always presumed to be living clockwork creatures, but are now just clockwork creatures

So, you see, the problem is what to do with them to make them as challenging as the other outsiders? Being a pure Construct doesn't justify the lack of what the other outsiders have.

 

[Shroomy]

It'll take some time getting used to, but a lot of us would agree that they should've been Outsiders with Construct traits as a special quality.

Mainly because all the other representatives of the alignment axis (Archons, Yugoloths, Devils, Demons, Slaadi, Eladrin, Guardinals, and Rilmani) are also Outsiders. Also, as Constructs the modrons are gimped from a lot of things:

---BAB is Medium instead of Good
---All saving throws are poor instead of all saving throws being good
---2 skill points/level instead of 8 skill points/level
---Always presumed to be living clockwork creatures, but are now just clockwork creatures

So, you see, the problem is what to do with them to make them as challenging as the other outsiders? Being a pure Construct doesn't justify the lack of what the other outsiders have.

Though I'm not really concerned with the Outsiders vs. Construct debate, I have to point out that the modrons now gain a laundry list of immunities from their Construct type that kinda sorta balances out the Type change.

 

[Nifft]

Meh, iconic outsiders usually get a laundry list of immunities and resistances. I'd be happy with Modrons as "living constructs" (like Warforged) with effectively Outsider HD.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Shroomy]

Meh, iconic outsiders usually get a laundry list of immunities and resistances.

I only have the SRD outsiders to go off of, but the following are the immunities for the Core Outsiders.

Archons - immune to electricity and petrification.

Tanar'ri - immune to electricity and poison.

Baatezu - immune to fire and poison

Eladrin - immune to electricity and petrification

Guardinal - immune to electricity and petrification

Compare to the immunities of the Construct Type:

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).

Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.

Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).

Not at risk of death from massive damage.

Not too shabby...

 

[Nifft]

Don't forget the "resistances" part -- most have SR, and most resist 5 to 10 points of any energy damage to which they're not outright immune.

So Modrons take full damage from a fireball? All they have for protection is a Reflex save? Sounds like a fair trade-off.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Shroomy]

Don't forget the "resistances" part -- most have SR, and most resist 5 to 10 points of any energy damage to which they're not outright immune.

So Modrons take full damage from a fireball? All they have for protection is a Reflex save? Sounds like a fair trade-off.

Cheers, -- N

I don't have the issue in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the modrons do have resistance 10 to some energy types (I'm pretty sure fire is one of them). I don't think any of the base modrons have SR, but the hierarchs probably do (again, I don't have Dungeon 144 in front of me).

 

[Nifft]

I don't have the issue in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the modrons do have resistance 10 to some energy types (I'm pretty sure fire is one of them). I don't think any of the base modrons have SR, but the hierarchs probably do (again, I don't have Dungeon 144 in front of me).

Oh.

Well, they've done it differently than I would have in that case. IMHO the construct immunities are pretty darn good, easily comparable to what other Outsiders get. If they additionally have an Int score and can exploit those immunities... well, that's rather strong.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Shroomy]

Oh.

Well, they've done it differently than I would have in that case. IMHO the construct immunities are pretty darn good, easily comparable to what other Outsiders get. If they additionally have an Int score and can exploit those immunities... well, that's rather strong.

Cheers, -- N

I believe the monodrone has an Int of 4 and it just increases from there so that the pentadrone has a higher than human average intelligence (I want to say 16).

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Don't forget the "resistances" part -- most have SR, and most resist 5 to 10 points of any energy damage to which they're not outright immune.

So Modrons take full damage from a fireball? All they have for protection is a Reflex save? Sounds like a fair trade-off.

Cheers, -- N

Dont forget a poor reflex save. Constructs have all poor saves vs. outsiders all good saves.