Necromancer Games-update by Orcus

[carmachu]

You and me both.

My quote about eating crow, though (as I recall) had to do with those who said there would never be a revised GSL. I got that part right Unfortunately, it was too late.

You did. But unfortunately, it WAS too late, and a few people were thinking so.

But I want to address one point in your last post:

Its crazy. Its been crazy. Luckily we have good people with vision who want to make it right. I still believe in Scott and I believe Wizards can pull itself out of this dangerous track they are in of dividing the customer base.

I think Wizards needs to step back and say--lets not be the company of 4E, lets be the company of D&D. Lets embrace ALL players, not just 4E players. How much would it rule to see some of the old handbooks revised and reprinted (for those who want them)? How about not tell us waht to play and demean those who dont adopt the new hotness? How about finding a unifying thread of that game? How about a system-neutral world that has run through every edition of D&D prior to now (nudge nudge, a Greyhawk revival that is a setting only, not system specific; how rad would that be, nudge nudge)? Sometimes I wonder if Wizards has learned the lessons of the history of this hobby.

To be honest? Its too late. WAY too late. No one is goingto forget the GSL fiasco, or the trashing of everything old school. Yanking of PDF's with no notice?(granted they did have a recovery day, but their still gone as far as I know).

The base has fragmented. Its never coming back together again. I think Scott is great, but Scott isnt the company as a whole, and judging by its past actions, I dont think WotC wants, nor cares about anything but the new hotness.

No, I dont think Wizards understand the hobby history at all, judging by its past actions. And I dont think it will. Individials like Scott? Sure. The company? Not going to learn. Not unless its their bottom line that is in danger, and then maybe they might learn.

But ultimately the base is split, and not coming back.

 

[roguerouge]

The problem, I think, was the distributors. As 4E got near, they said "we hope there wont be a glut again like with 3E" and I think that really threw Wizards and I think that got the GSL off track. Then, when 4E launched without 3Ps, those same distributors said "hey, there arent any products to support this new line." And now when you talk to them about doing products they say "there's no established track record and sales suck." Its like a self-fulfilling prophesy.

This is the important dynamic to look for in business. Good point.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

You did. But unfortunately, it WAS too late, and a few people were thinking so.

But I want to address one point in your last post:



To be honest? Its too late. WAY too late. No one is goingto forget the GSL fiasco, or the trashing of everything old school. Yanking of PDF's with no notice?(granted they did have a recovery day, but their still gone as far as I know).

The base has fragmented. Its never coming back together again. I think Scott is great, but Scott isnt the company as a whole, and judging by its past actions, I dont think WotC wants, nor cares about anything but the new hotness.

No, I dont think Wizards understand the hobby history at all, judging by its past actions. And I dont think it will. Individials like Scott? Sure. The company? Not going to learn. Not unless its their bottom line that is in danger, and then maybe they might learn.

But ultimately the base is split, and not coming back.

That´s appropriately doom´n´gloom of you, but the "trashing of everything oldschool" left me a little bit surprised. Who trashed everything oldschool again? Did i miss something?

 

[Jack99]

But ultimately the base is split, and not coming back.

Saying that the base is split, doesn't that imply some sort of equality? I mean, if WotC lost 5% of it's customers due to 4e, you could hardly say that the fanbase is split, right?

 

[carmachu]

That´s appropriately doom´n´gloom of you, but the "trashing of everything oldschool" left me a little bit surprised. Who trashed everything oldschool again? Did i miss something?

Were you not awake during the 4e hype days from Wotc? Everything old was bad and 4e was the new hotness to make everythinhg better.

Thats the impression WOtc left one with with 4e's hype....


Further, you say its doom and gloom. Prove me wrong. SHOW ME where you think Wotc's actions to date have shown any inclusion type items or words.

I'm betting you cant.

 

[carmachu]

Saying that the base is split, doesn't that imply some sort of equality? I mean, if WotC lost 5% of it's customers due to 4e, you could hardly say that the fanbase is split, right?

While I most certainly dont think its a 50-50 split, or even a 60-40 split, I highly doubt also its barely 5% either.....

Perhaps fragmented is a better word.

 

[Shemeska]

Saying that the base is split, doesn't that imply some sort of equality? I mean, if WotC lost 5% of it's customers due to 4e, you could hardly say that the fanbase is split, right?

When the idea of only a 30-40% conversion rate from 3e to 4e gets tossed around, it's not a stretch to think that the fanbase is split quite a bit. Gaining enough new people to make up for that sort of fragmentation is the question, and I can only speculate if WotC is doing so.

 

[avin]

I think Wizards needs to step back and say--lets not be the company of 4E, lets be the company of D&D. Lets embrace ALL players, not just 4E players. How much would it rule to see some of the old handbooks revised and reprinted (for those who want them)?

Or, at least, PDFs of them.

In special Monster Manuals.

 

[DaveMage]

I think Wizards needs to step back and say--lets not be the company of 4E, lets be the company of D&D. Lets embrace ALL players, not just 4E players. How much would it rule to see some of the old handbooks revised and reprinted (for those who want them)? How about not tell us waht to play and demean those who dont adopt the new hotness? How about finding a unifying thread of that game? How about a system-neutral world that has run through every edition of D&D prior to now (nudge nudge, a Greyhawk revival that is a setting only, not system specific; how rad would that be, nudge nudge)? Sometimes I wonder if Wizards has learned the lessons of the history of this hobby.

Here's the biggest problem with this: WotC both changes people too much (over time) and seems to have way too many cooks in the kitchen making these decisions. The people making decisions today may not even be there tomorrow. Scott may be the perfect champion for what you want, Clark. But he also may be working somewhere else tomorrow (or win Powerball or something). If he's the only champion on the business side, forget any hope of Wizards being the inclusive D&D producer.

No, D&D needs to be in the hands of a company just big enough to handle it, but not too big that its corporate bureaucracy gets in the way of doing what's both best equally for the bottom line *and* the game. (And maybe even favoring the game now and again.)

Since that's not likely to happen anytime soon, many of us are looking for other alternatives - whether it's old school stuff like Swords & Wizardry, or the evolution of 3.5 in Pathfinder, which is what many see as the continuation of D&D - just without the brand name.

 

[Eridanis]

Carmachu, that's enough harping. You've made your point.

Everyone, please keep the tone of discussion respectful.