Necromancer Optional Rule?

[Raduin711]

If a Wizard specializing in necromancy gave up their familiar, their bonus feats, and their bonus necromancy slot, and in exchange got the ability to rebuke undead as a cleric 3 levels lower...

would this be balanced? Underpowered?

would this be a better/worse/equal build to the Necro/Cleric character build, given that all you are interested in is making and controlling undead?

 

[Thondor]

One of my frustrations with being a Wizard specializing in Necromancy has always been the fact that Clerics are better at it then you.

Personally I would, drop the familiar and gain rebuke undead as a cleric.

As well as making the following divine spells arcane for necromancers:

Detect undead (1st level spell)
Hide from Undead (1st level spell)
Animate Dead as 3rd level spell (like a cleric instead of 4th like wizard)
Speak with Dead as 3rd level spell (which wizards don't get)

Considering also Disrupting Weapon level 5 spell


Unless you give a Necromancer all of this they are significantly less able then Clerics when it comes to the Undead

 

[Thurbane]

Maybe just go Dread Necromancer from HoH.

 

[iceifur]

Well, it's worth noting that the most powerful use of turning/rebuking, the Divine Metamagic feat, doesn't function for arcane spellcasters (check the errata for Complete Divine, if you haven't already). With that option out of the way, I'd value the rebuking ability (full, not level - 3) as the equivalent of either the necromancer's familiar or their bonus specialist spell slots, but not both (and definitely not their bonus feats).

 

[robberbaron]

IME familiars are only chosen to give a small skill/save bonus (many MU characters I've seen didn't even bother summoning one in the first place) so I'd argue against swapping familiar for rebuke.
One of my players wanted his sorcerer to be allowed to swap his familiar for fast metamagicking (PHB2). No way is that a balanced deal.

Give up all bonus spells => rebuke? I think that is closer to balanced. Have to see it in action before coming right down off the fence, though.

 

[DogBackward]

Clerics are supposed to be better at undead than wizards. You can always reflavor it for your game, bu tin normal games, Clerics are basically the masters of life and death, as part of their religious calling. Of course they're better at the death part than wizards.

As for the balance thing, Turn Undead would be fine at full power if you sacrifice the familiar, and maybe the bonus spell slots.

 

[Kurashu]

Maybe just go Dread Necromancer from HoH.

*nods*

It's a great necromancer class. Better than a cleric, in my opinion.

 

[iceifur]

It's a great necromancer class. Better than a cleric, in my opinion.

Too bad the Dread Necromancer class is only 8 levels long.

 

[DogBackward]

I dunno, getting the Lich template with no LA and a free Phylactry seems like a good reason to stay the course.

 

[Darthbelch]

Im glad someone brought up the Divine Metamagic feat and the fact it dosent work for Arcane spell casters. With that out of the way, I really dont see that much of a problem with giving up a familiar for rebuke.

Yea, Familiars arent usually even summoned/used in the first place. Which is kinda like handing off something that you would never consider using, for something that you may end up using quite often....Then again, giving up bonus spells or especially feats, seems to much.

I dont think I would have to much of a problem with granting them Rebuke (At full.) for the cost of their familiar.