Necromancy and AL

[Pauper]

I encourage DMs to allow players to keep trinkets of things they find in their adventures. I also inform players that these are merely keepsakes, and have no value other than being collectibles (such as a scale of vorgansharax or something).

I can accept this. The problem with applying this reasoning to the current situation, though, is that such trinkets aren't going to cause conflicts at the table, nor will they run the risk of impacting play.

In that sense, it should be emphasized that the corpse of a defeated opponent is no different than that opponent's trinkets and other non-treasure objects -- a PC can make use of those objects if the current DM approves, but there's no requirement or necessity for a different DM to make the same ruling, for reasons that have already been exhaustively documented in this thread.

There may be good reasons for the DM to listen to the advice of the other players at the table before making a ruling, including allowing other players to take actions that would effectively prevent the necromancer from using the corpses as undead, such as a cleric of Kelemvor casting Gentle Repose as a ritual on the corpses. Ultimately, though, it is the DM's call.

If said paladin is a PC, this is covered by the ruling below - to paraphrase "It's what my character would do" is never a valid excuse for disruptive behavior (which includes undermining other PCs)

Let's be clear, though -- there is a distinction between using 'it's what my character would do' as an excuse to undermine another player's character, and a player simply acting in accordance with his character's personality traits to the disadvantage of another player's character. Playing a character with interesting personality traits should be encouraged. And 'disruptive behavior' is defined in the Code of Conduct, and isn't just 'any behavior that another player finds distasteful'. Given that two of the examples of disruptive behavior in the ALPG are "Talking over other players excessively" and "Demanding more attention from the DM", I can easily imagine a scenario in which the player of a paladin or cleric may take pro-active actions to prevent the player of a necromancer from engaging in disruptive behavior, especially if he's gamed with that player before and is aware of his tendencies.

All this is simply to reiterate, yet again, the common conclusion of this thread -- a necromancer who is a team player and doesn't look to dominate the game with his new undead minions will be more easily accepted than one who is trying to pull the spotlight with what his amazing army can do. If you want to play a necromancer at an AL table, be sure to communicate that your character is a team player and isn't looking to take over the game, then follow through on that promise, and you'll find your play experience goes much better.

--
Pauper

 

[Cascade]

[h=5]How do I deal with players of evil characters, or who venerate an evil deity?[/h]
Just because a player has a character with a darker side doesn’t mean that player has a license to make the game less fun for others at the table. Players are encouraged to have their characters work together despite their differences; a little competition is fine, as long as it stays fun for everyone involved and doesn’t result in other players getting shut out of the experience. If a DM or another player feels as though a player is creating an uncomfortable situation through the excuse of “it’s what my character would do,” the DM is free to give the offending player a warning for disruptive behavior, and if it persists, ask the organizer to remove the player from the table.

If they feel the necromancer is "shutting them out of the experience", or ""feels as though a player is creating an uncomfortable situation" then yes, they can....

If a paladin cannot find a reason to include the necromancer (and their minions) at the table, the paladin player isn't trying hard enough. The character is an extension of the player. Therefore, regardless of what the character would think, the player ultimately decides what their character does, says, thinks, and feels. If you create characters that don't play nice at the table - you are being disruptive..

A little contradiction here...

If a necromancer is doing an action <using his undead> and the party does not like it and they feel it is disrupting the table; the DM may issue a warning. Correct? I don't value the actions of the necromancer and higher or lower than the paladin.

If a necromancer (player) can not find a way to work with the party, then that player isn't trying hard enough.

It goes both ways.

The OP appears to want campaign documentation to do as he sees fit...a means to force judges and other players to cater without remorse. It can be hidden behind whatever semantics he chooses, some players and judges won't accept it and waving a bunch of rules won't lend itself to a fun table.
IMHO, it's up to the player to ask before the mod starts if this play style (necromancer or a$$hat paladin or evil treasure stealing rogue or over inquisitive kender, etc...) will cause a problem and if it might, just pick something else.

AL events just aren't that deadly that a group needs a horde of skeletal archers following them around. This is about forcing an anti theme. I play them also and sometimes it simply is not appropriate based upon other players at the table and I'd never ask a judge or expect rules to force the acceptance.

This isn't personal or grieffing, its playing nice in a big sand box.

 

[RulesJD]

*snip*

There may be good reasons for the DM to listen to the advice of the other players at the table before making a ruling, including allowing other players to take actions that would effectively prevent the necromancer from using the corpses as undead, such as a cleric of Kelemvor casting Gentle Repose as a ritual on the corpses. Ultimately, though, it is the DM's call.



Let's be clear, though -- there is a distinction between using 'it's what my character would do' as an excuse to undermine another player's character, and a player simply acting in accordance with his character's personality traits to the disadvantage of another player's character. Playing a character with interesting personality traits should be encouraged. And 'disruptive behavior' is defined in the Code of Conduct, and isn't just 'any behavior that another player finds distasteful'. Given that two of the examples of disruptive behavior in the ALPG are "Talking over other players excessively" and "Demanding more attention from the DM", I can easily imagine a scenario in which the player of a paladin or cleric may take pro-active actions to prevent the player of a necromancer from engaging in disruptive behavior, especially if he's gamed with that player before and is aware of his tendencies.

All this is simply to reiterate, yet again, the common conclusion of this thread -- a necromancer who is a team player and doesn't look to dominate the game with his new undead minions will be more easily accepted than one who is trying to pull the spotlight with what his amazing army can do. If you want to play a necromancer at an AL table, be sure to communicate that your character is a team player and isn't looking to take over the game, then follow through on that promise, and you'll find your play experience goes much better.

--
Pauper

Per usual, you are wrong on both accounts.

1. Gentle Repose as a ritual would like 10+ minutes. Animate Dead takes 1 minute to cast, so, you know, good luck with that.

2. Far, far more importantly, read the rules. No, a player cannot use their character's alignment/class/et al to purposefully disadvantage another player. Period. Full stop. Let's turn the tables and I'll simply ask what part of that don't you understand?

*edit*

3. It goes without saying that, obviously, at the point you're purposefully taking actions to disadvantage another player...you're the one being the disruptive player.

To make your quote much more accurate:

"All this is simply to reiterate, yet again, the common conclusion of this thread -- a player who is a team player and doesn't look to dominate the game with their playstyle will be more easily accepted than one who is trying to pull the spotlight with what his amazing playstyle can do. If you want to play a playstyle at an AL table, be sure to communicate that your character is a team player and isn't looking to take over the game, then follow through on that promise, and you'll find your play experience goes much better."

Not a thing about that advice applies any more or less to a Necromancer as literally any other class/race/etc.

 

[Pauper]

Apropos of nothing, I'll simply observe that my life is far less stressful since I learned how to manage my block list.



--
Pauper

 

[Pauper]

The OP appears to want campaign documentation to do as he sees fit...a means to force judges and other players to cater without remorse.

I agree with your general point, but want to be clear that the 'original' OP was simply asking if it was possible to be a non-evil aligned necromancer, which it clearly is. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that a player who created a lawful good necromancer, and played it closely to the description of that alignment in the Player's Handbook, would be unlikely to run into any of the problems we've been discussing these past few pages.

Let the current troll run into a DM who is willing to say, "OK, you begin casting the Gentle Repose ritual when suddenly your holy symbol flares and the power of Kelemvor is transferred to all the corpses, granting them Gentle Repose without the need of a material component." He'll figure out it's the DM's call quickly enough.

--
Pauper

 

[RulesJD]

*snip*

Let the current troll run into a DM who is willing to say, "OK, you begin casting the Gentle Repose ritual when suddenly your holy symbol flares and the power of Kelemvor is transferred to all the corpses, granting them Gentle Repose without the need of a material component." He'll figure out it's the DM's call quickly enough.

--
Pauper

If anyone knows Pauper in real life, would be super to let his LC/RC know that he is violating (or at least advocating for the violation of) AL rules.

 

[RulesJD]

On an entirely separate matter, anyone have any advice for the mechanical aspects of minionmancy and hope to make it more efficient? Current ideas include:

1. Dice rolling app (quickest but might bother DMs because they can't see rolls)
2. Letting other players roll (less quick but keeps other players involved)
3. Keep healing potions stored in the rib cages of the minions so they can act as in-combat healers.
4. Use an excel spreadsheet to track minion HP during combats.
5. Magnetic tokens (saves on gridspace while still providing DM info on where they are)

Any recommendations on dice rolling apps or magnetic tokens? Ideally the tokens would be just larger than the standard medium sized creature's base but smaller than a grid square.

 

[KahlessNestor]

If anyone knows Pauper in real life, would be super to let his LC/RC know that he is violating (or at least advocating for the violation of) AL rules.

Wow, now we're tattling?



Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[KahlessNestor]

On an entirely separate matter, anyone have any advice for the mechanical aspects of minionmancy and hope to make it more efficient? Current ideas include:

1. Dice rolling app (quickest but might bother DMs because they can't see rolls)
2. Letting other players roll (less quick but keeps other players involved)
3. Keep healing potions stored in the rib cages of the minions so they can act as in-combat healers.
4. Use an excel spreadsheet to track minion HP during combats.
5. Magnetic tokens (saves on gridspace while still providing DM info on where they are)

Any recommendations on dice rolling apps or magnetic tokens? Ideally the tokens would be just larger than the standard medium sized creature's base but smaller than a grid square.

I know there were magnetic condition tokens in 4e. Came in a wooden DM kit box. Don't know what company.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[RulesJD]

I know there were magnetic condition tokens in 4e. Came in a wooden DM kit box. Don't know what company.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

As in like an official WotC product?