Need help with a Paragon template revison

[Mr.Satan]

I'll keep it at +37 just so paragons have some hope of competing with an Amidah at all. It also rounds out inherent maximums to a nice and even 60 in each ability score. Not accounting for virtual size categories of course.

I never agreed with the original paragon having only +15. Nor am I too keen on it being a mere quasi- or demi-deity equivalent. Especially with how powerful the Amidah is.

It should be on par with a Lesser Deity (at the weakest) or Intermediate Deity since the Amidah is on par with an Elder Deity. Paragons are one step below the Amidah...much like an Avatar is one step below a deity.

When a deity is destroyed, it's avatars scramble to take on it's role, not it's aspects. I could, however, see there being cause for a lesser paragon template...maybe called "Elite" or something of that nature.

 

[Belzamus]

I think that's true, in a thematic sense as well. The ultimate specimen of a race should probably average more than ECL 40ish. I know in my setting, paragons tended to end in the 80ish range, often having imbalanced ECL/HD thanks to Paragon only accounting for part of their ECL. Hence, me rather liking this revision, even if doesn't quite sync up with U_K's original framework from he which he derived the Amidah template.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Ahoy there!

I'll keep it at +37 just so paragons have some hope of competing with an Amidah at all. It also rounds out inherent maximums to a nice and even 60 in each ability score. Not accounting for virtual size categories of course.

I never agreed with the original paragon having only +15. Nor am I too keen on it being a mere quasi- or demi-deity equivalent. Especially with how powerful the Amidah is.

It should be on par with a Lesser Deity (at the weakest) or Intermediate Deity since the Amidah is on par with an Elder Deity. Paragons are one step below the Amidah...much like an Avatar is one step below a deity.

When a deity is destroyed, it's avatars scramble to take on it's role, not it's aspects. I could, however, see there being cause for a lesser paragon template...maybe called "Elite" or something of that nature.

Well certainly you can set things as you wish but I just want you to understand your rational for doing so is irrational.

The Paragon Template, to me seemed to bridge the gap between Undergods and Gods.

From that idea, the Amidah was designed to bridge the gap between the Gods and the Overgods.

You can't say that the Paragon template makes no sense because the Amidah Template is 'x' powerful. The Amidah was developed AFTER the Paragon Template, their exact relativity was the reason its designed the way it is.

To say that, because the Amidah is so powerful, the Paragon Template must also be close to it in power is missing the crux of the matter. Paragons are sort of Jesus Type figures for their respective races. Amidah are cosmic messiah's introduced to give balance to the various dimensions.

If you want to make some sort of Avatar to the Amidah's God then fair enough, but it should probably be something other than the Paragon creature.

That said of course, feel free to design it whichever way you want. The above is just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Mr.Satan]

Ahoy there!

Oo Arg!!! Shiver me timbers!!!

Well certainly you can set things as you wish but I just want you to understand your rational for doing so is irrational.

This also depends entirely upon your definition of irrational. On Enworld, much like elsewhere, this varies widely.

The Paragon Template, to me seemed to bridge the gap between Undergods and Gods.

I've never agreed with that viewpoint. It seems rather arbitrary.

From that idea, the Amidah was designed to bridge the gap between the Gods and the Overgods.

See previous.

You can't say that the Paragon template makes no sense because the Amidah Template is 'x' powerful. The Amidah was developed AFTER the Paragon Template, their exact relativity was the reason its designed the way it is.

I can actually say that and seem to have done just that.

While your intentions may have been different from the way others have viewed your creation, this is only natural. The original paragon was, after all, poorly designed.

Your amidah template, however, was excellently designed. Even if your method of designing it wasn't quite rational. You used a horribly flawed template as the basis for your design.

Given that you're an excellent designer, the resulting amidah was a vast improvement over the original paragon...both mechanically and thematically.

However, your creation created a vacuum and effectively sundered the (already broken) original paragon template. I, like nature, abhor a vacuum.

To say that, because the Amidah is so powerful, the Paragon Template must also be close to it in power is missing the crux of the matter. Paragons are sort of Jesus Type figures for their respective races. Amidah are cosmic messiah's introduced to give balance to the various dimensions.

The crux of the matter from your perspective, is irrelevant from my perspective. I prefer a fresh perspective on things. The paragon, as many have pointed out elsewhere, must be able to compete with the amidah.

If your take on the paragon were to be accepted as canon, the paragon would be essentially useless and completely unable to fulfill it's designated role of being a threat to the amidah. This is thematically unsound.

If you want to make some sort of Avatar to the Amidah's God then fair enough, but it should probably be something other than the Paragon creature.

I disagree. It should be the paragon. It makes far more sense.

That said of course, feel free to design it whichever way you want. The above is just my opinion on the matter.

I will, and your opinion is duly noted.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello there Mr.Satan!

Oo Arg!!! Shiver me timbers!!!

Very appropos given the outside weather.

However, your creation created a vacuum and effectively sundered the (already broken) original paragon template. I, like nature, abhor a vacuum.

I hate doing the vacuuming too.

I will, and your opinion is duly noted.

Merry xmas amigo!