Need hundreds of feathers to make arrows

[Scrivener of Doom]

(snip) But it's really starting to sound like your DM is just being awkward - for 15th level characters, getting a supply of something as mundane as arrows really shouldn't be an issue. (snip)

That's my read on this as well.

At 15th level, the druid only needs to cast control winds - a mere 5th-level spell - at the cost of a standard action and he has 150 minutes to play with hurricanes and tornados in a 600-feet radius cylinder 40-feet high that can be cast up to 600-feet away. How many 5th-level or higher level spell slots does a 15th-level druid have just to be able to spam control winds until that entire army is completely destroyed?

I just looked it up. Assuming he has no Wis bonuses, he has 10 available spell slots for control winds. He could probably just hide the town behind a wall of adjacent tornados!

Bugger the feathers....

As for disrupting the ecosystem, I imagine that there must be some sort of flat terrain involved that will allow the army to actually march on the town? That being the case, there's not going to be that much collateral environment damage.

 

[MarkB]

Maybe "moderate-sized" was better than small, but regardless, we still have to deal with them. I'm not going to tell these people how to defend their town, and if they don't have the resources to buy what they need, but if I can do it without much hassle, then I might as well. I am also going to help the fletcher by fashioning arrowheads and shafts using wood shape and then ironwood on the arrowheads. The other party members are helping out by training the townsfolk into militia, and/or casting spells and providing other support, so why shouldn't I do my part?

Hmm, you might be able to finagle Wood Shape and Ironwood into letting you make multiple arrows per casting by creating them all as one item and then trimming off the sprues, but it's still slow going. As a 15th-level caster, you have so many more useful options.

For instance:

Using Stone Shape, Soften Earth and Stone, Transmute Mud To Rock / Rock To Mud, Move Earth, Wall of Stone, Plant Growth and similar spells to create defensive ramparts, place obstacles that will impede the enemy advance, and generally just re-shape the entire battlefield into something that massively favours the defenders and hinders the attackers.

Using Liveoak to animate nearby trees into guardians for the town, if available.

Casting Hallow with a suitable linked spell upon a specific area or defensive structure to make it a haven for its defenders.

Laying down zones of Control Weather along the path of the oncoming army to hinder their progress, buying extra hours or days for preparation.

Plentiful castings of Goodberry to create handfuls of low-level healing items for distribution to the front-line fighters.

 

[aglondier]

I know this is D&D and the default mode is to engage them in combat, but had you considered just paying the tribute?

Between a druid and a mage there should be very little you cannot supply.

Now, with the pressure taken off the town, you can proceed to utilise more sinister methods to ensure the army disperses and the ones who mustered it will have a difficult time in the future mustering new armies.

An army of that size needs supply lines. You, as a druid, have all of nature to act as scouts to locate those supply trains.
An army of that size needs food and water supplies stored in camp. You, as a druid, have infinite resources for despoiling or stealing those supplies. Vermin love grain. Skunks, and other musk spraying critters, can be sent in to render the supplies unpalatable. Venomous animals can be sent to poison food and water supplies. Suicide squirrels can be doused in plague or poison and sent to jump into the enemy water supply.
An army of that size needs a payroll! Find it. Raid it. A murder of crows can make short work of a pile of shiny coins.

Plagues of mosquitoes, fleas, leeches, and other biting vermin can make their lives miserable. The aforementioned skunks can make their tents uninhabitable.

Enemy spellcasters need 8 hours of rest to recover their spells. Deny them. Hit and run raids from squirrels, possums, small monkeys, ferrets, cats, dogs, and whatever can keep both the soldiers and the enemy spellcasters from getting any decent sleep. Exhausted enemies will make mistakes, and have a hard time recovering spells.

Use wildshape and Baleful Polymorph to pick off their scouts and sentries. Anyone who is left alone...disappears...

Send the rogue into the middle of the camp, Invisibility etc, Silence a tent and murder everyone inside it. Coup de gras should do it. Have him use a scroll of Animate Dead. Order newly raised zombies to wait until near dawn then leave the tent and attack anyone the encounter.

Pose as an itinerant holy man passing through on pilgrimage, offering a blessing in return for an evening meal and space by a fire...use the opportunity to sow a little paranoia with some tall stories about ghosts or curses, nothing specific or linkable to you or the town you are defending. Then move on. Return to bedeviling them.

Morale should suffer, and soldiers will start going awol. Let some go, have others suffer horrifically. Some die gruesomely to be found later, others survive to return to the army with tales of horror.

I doubt the spellcasters will be willing to fight to the death against an enemy they cannot even sense.
The Leadership feat makes note that spectacular failures and loss of soldiers in your command reduce the numbers of followers you can muster in future. This will count as that. And if you have raided their supply lines and encampments enough, you can run a profit, even if you did pay the tribute in the first place.

Just my thoughts...

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

RUMBLETiGER, you are linking to spells in the Pathfinder SRD; do you know if the non-PHB spells are in D&D 3.5 books, and if so what books?

Oops, I was responding to a Pathfinder thread right before yours, forgot to switch over.
Some of the spells don't translate, I apologize. However, all I did was scroll down thru the Druid spell list & pick out ones that modified terrain, and then ones that could be useful in battle. 3.5 has plenty of both.
If you'd like I could present an alternate list of suggestions.
Here and Here would be the 3.5 lists.

 

[BOZ]

First of all, I just want to say that I didn't come here looking for a way to get around obtaining the feathers, nor I am looking for input on how unfair my DM may be for requesting that I perform a supposedly mundane task that should be beneath me, or anything other than "how can I get this done". So I will not be responding any further to any such non-productive comments, and I want to say thank you to those who have tried to help me with my original question.

 

[BOZ]

One big advantage of teleport and it's greater cousin is that you can try towns further away. But it's really starting to sound like your DM is just being awkward - for 15th level characters, getting a supply of something as mundane as arrows really shouldn't be an issue.

Fabricate also requires that you have the raw materials on hand. So, without the feathers it won't work anyway.

Yep, that was probably the problem with fabricate - I wasn't really focusing on that because it's not one of my spells. I will have to consider using teleport to move around the area, but if I can get it done without moving around that may be better.

That's my read on this as well.

At 15th level, the druid only needs to cast control winds - a mere 5th-level spell - at the cost of a standard action and he has 150 minutes to play with hurricanes and tornados in a 600-feet radius cylinder 40-feet high that can be cast up to 600-feet away. How many 5th-level or higher level spell slots does a 15th-level druid have just to be able to spam control winds until that entire army is completely destroyed?

I just looked it up. Assuming he has no Wis bonuses, he has 10 available spell slots for control winds. He could probably just hide the town behind a wall of adjacent tornados!

Bugger the feathers....

As for disrupting the ecosystem, I imagine that there must be some sort of flat terrain involved that will allow the army to actually march on the town? That being the case, there's not going to be that much collateral environment damage.

I will definitely be putting control winds in my arsenal.

Hmm, you might be able to finagle Wood Shape and Ironwood into letting you make multiple arrows per casting by creating them all as one item and then trimming off the sprues, but it's still slow going. As a 15th-level caster, you have so many more useful options.

For instance:

Using Stone Shape, Soften Earth and Stone, Transmute Mud To Rock / Rock To Mud, Move Earth, Wall of Stone, Plant Growth and similar spells to create defensive ramparts, place obstacles that will impede the enemy advance, and generally just re-shape the entire battlefield into something that massively favours the defenders and hinders the attackers.

Using Liveoak to animate nearby trees into guardians for the town, if available.

Casting Hallow with a suitable linked spell upon a specific area or defensive structure to make it a haven for its defenders.

Laying down zones of Control Weather along the path of the oncoming army to hinder their progress, buying extra hours or days for preparation.

Plentiful castings of Goodberry to create handfuls of low-level healing items for distribution to the front-line fighters.

For wood shape/ironwood, that is exactly what I was thinking, and sounds like the DM thinks it's a good idea. The townsfolk will help with the work, so it won't be me doing all the labor. Having resolved that, the feathers are my focus now.

I love all of your suggestions so far for dealing with the raiders - they are beautiful.

I know this is D&D and the default mode is to engage them in combat, but had you considered just paying the tribute?

Between a druid and a mage there should be very little you cannot supply.

Now, with the pressure taken off the town, you can proceed to utilise more sinister methods to ensure the army disperses and the ones who mustered it will have a difficult time in the future mustering new armies.

An army of that size needs supply lines. You, as a druid, have all of nature to act as scouts to locate those supply trains.
An army of that size needs food and water supplies stored in camp. You, as a druid, have infinite resources for despoiling or stealing those supplies. Vermin love grain. Skunks, and other musk spraying critters, can be sent in to render the supplies unpalatable. Venomous animals can be sent to poison food and water supplies. Suicide squirrels can be doused in plague or poison and sent to jump into the enemy water supply.
An army of that size needs a payroll! Find it. Raid it. A murder of crows can make short work of a pile of shiny coins.

Plagues of mosquitoes, fleas, leeches, and other biting vermin can make their lives miserable. The aforementioned skunks can make their tents uninhabitable.

Enemy spellcasters need 8 hours of rest to recover their spells. Deny them. Hit and run raids from squirrels, possums, small monkeys, ferrets, cats, dogs, and whatever can keep both the soldiers and the enemy spellcasters from getting any decent sleep. Exhausted enemies will make mistakes, and have a hard time recovering spells.

Use wildshape and Baleful Polymorph to pick off their scouts and sentries. Anyone who is left alone...disappears...

Send the rogue into the middle of the camp, Invisibility etc, Silence a tent and murder everyone inside it. Coup de gras should do it. Have him use a scroll of Animate Dead. Order newly raised zombies to wait until near dawn then leave the tent and attack anyone the encounter.

Pose as an itinerant holy man passing through on pilgrimage, offering a blessing in return for an evening meal and space by a fire...use the opportunity to sow a little paranoia with some tall stories about ghosts or curses, nothing specific or linkable to you or the town you are defending. Then move on. Return to bedeviling them.

Morale should suffer, and soldiers will start going awol. Let some go, have others suffer horrifically. Some die gruesomely to be found later, others survive to return to the army with tales of horror.

I doubt the spellcasters will be willing to fight to the death against an enemy they cannot even sense.
The Leadership feat makes note that spectacular failures and loss of soldiers in your command reduce the numbers of followers you can muster in future. This will count as that. And if you have raided their supply lines and encampments enough, you can run a profit, even if you did pay the tribute in the first place.

Just my thoughts...

More great suggestions for the upcoming fight, thanks. I will be making note of all of this.

Oops, I was responding to a Pathfinder thread right before yours, forgot to switch over.
Some of the spells don't translate, I apologize. However, all I did was scroll down thru the Druid spell list & pick out ones that modified terrain, and then ones that could be useful in battle. 3.5 has plenty of both.
If you'd like I could present an alternate list of suggestions.
Here and Here would be the 3.5 lists.

No worries, thanks. The players had previously discussed call animal in particular, so we need to be able to find them. I see nature's rampart in the Spell Compendium, so that is good. I'm not finding call animal though, which I know is one we will need.

 

[Derren]

This scenario doesn't make sense.


A small city of thousand adults is not going to stop a army numbering in the 10.000. Even the idea to actually try it when they could pay tribute is idiotic. Its not as if they are even prepared for combat as otherwise they would already have arrows.

Speaking of arrows, who is going to use them? The untrained villagers? But I guess some are trained in archery as otherwise they would have no one to even craft the arrows (its not as simple as you think). Getting the feathers is also rather easy compared to getting the wood and making it into arrows and also getting the arrowheads (as you are fighting soldiers in armor, pointy wood doesn't cut it).


As for the fight itself there are two possible outcomes.
1. The enemy army also has high level characters and it will come down to a duel between you and them while the rest of the army slaughters the town
2. The enemy has no high level characters and your group can destroy the army alone without the help of the town.

Because in a straight up fight, the town will lose, no matter if it has arrows or not. You do not win a 1:10 fight with untrained villagers. And even if you manage to drive them off, what then? They reform and come back in some months or next year. Are you willing to permanently stay as protector of the village? And if not, what do the villagers think the army will do to them the next time?

As for the suggestions above, they only work when the enemy has absolutely no idea what magic is and when they put their most important and vulnerable assets on the outskirts of their camp or are just very stupid (letting a unknown, wandering priest into their camp in a world where priests are often powerful spellcasters...). Squirrel or not, you will not penetrate deep into a camp of 10.000 to wake up some spellcasters (don't forget, just because you are a squirrel doesn't remove verbal and somatic components from spells. And a squirrel squaking incantations and making arcane/divine gestures with its arms is very noticeable). Even invisibility will not let you wander into the middle of the camp because enough people will notice that someone is there.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

First of all, I just want to say that I didn't come here looking for a way to get around obtaining the feathers, nor I am looking for input on how unfair my DM may be for requesting that I perform a supposedly mundane task that should be beneath me, or anything other than "how can I get this done". So I will not be responding any further to any such non-productive comments, and I want to say thank you to those who have tried to help me with my original question.

My apologies for my part in that.

I run 4E and never got a chance to see control winds in action in 3.5E. I was hoping to vicariously see it in action through your report of your game....

 

[BOZ]

No worries! I actually haven't used it yet myself, and this is my first time playing a 3rd edition druid, to my recollection. I have a lot of spells to research in preparation for the battle, and that is definitely going to be one of them. So far we haven't had a lot of combat (and when we did, I got killed and reincarnated, heh) and have been mostly role-playing and problem solving. The combat is coming though, and it will be epic.

 

[Greenfield]

I'm an archer in real life, and I teach a class in fletching arrows.

We commonly use turkey feathers. For your challenge, chicken feathers work. You'll get about a dozen feathers per bird (you normally use wing feathers), and you normally use scalding water to get the wings to release the feathers. That is usally done after the bird is dead, by the way.

If you want to pluck the birds and let them live it's more work. Pluck then, heal them, then pluck them again. Rinse/repeat until the birds go insane from having their feathers ripped out, over and over again.

I'm not sure what's worse for the druid: Killing that many birds, or simply torturing them through repeated pluckings.