Need some advice on player politics

[fusangite]

but i think it was said they do this all the time.

Again, I must ask: so what? Some people always play fighters. Some people always play wizards. Some people need to be unemployed harp players. And it's not like player #3 has been gaming with this pair for 10 years or anything. So what if all of a person's PCs, even over the space of an entire decade, always do certain things? SFW? SFW? Here they are changing their race, class and in-game relationship and people one guy is still having a problem simply because their characters are going to like eachother more than they like the rest of the party.

and when player 3 admits to having a problem with it. again how do you just gloss over it?

You don't gloss over it. You say to player #3: why is it so important that these people's characters like you as much or more than they like eachother? And if he doesn't have a rational response, in my view, he's the one who should get kicked to the curb, not the couple.

 

[TheEvil]

Trying to get a better handle on the situation, so here are some more questions I would ask of LadyGM:

You say Player 3 is a self-confessed ass, in game and out. How, exactly? Is he always making snide comments? Does he keep all treasure he finds from the party? From my own point of view, he can't be that bad if you have stuck with him for 6 months.
Have you talked to Player's 4 & 5 about how they feel about Player 1's behavior?
Also, still not sure why it is a good thing that it is common knowledge that they are engaged.

Sorry if I am being too intrusive. Definately tell me if you feel I have stepped over the line.

 

[LadyDM]

What you're really saying here is that you want this fellow's character to defer to your agenda instead of his fiancee's. That's undermining not reinforcing his individuality and free will.

As far as I can see, my agenda is to get the players, all of them; to think for themselves and not just in game. My players are all under 22 and (this is a generalization NOT to be taken as an affront) IMHO people at that age need to develop a fine tuned problem solving thought process that can assist them in everyday life, jobs, college, whatever. I believe creative thinking and problem solving skills can be learned by playing D&D.

Assuming the both Player 1 and Player 2 are relatively experienced players, I would probably talk to Player 2 about how you see Player 1's behavior. Explain your concerns and see if she agrees. If she does, ask if she will help guide his behavior. Since he is already looking to her for guidence, it would be pretty easy for her. He also might take it better if she suggests to him that his behavior is inconsistant then if you do.

I really like this idea and will talk with her today about it and see what she thinks. THANKS!!

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

A former player of mine insisted on her characters be related to someone in the party, every time. When one of her characters died, she rolled up a new one, who was a sister to the recently deceased. When the guy who was playing her character's brother left the game, she begin telling folks that the next character they roll up had to be part of her characters' family. I had to tell her to knock it off....I did it politely, but she got the hint.

 

[LadyDM]

You say Player 3 is a self-confessed ass, in game and out. How, exactly?

Have you talked to Player's 4 & 5 about how they feel about Player 1's behavior?

Also, still not sure why it is a good thing that it is common knowledge that they are engaged.

Sorry if I am being too intrusive. Definately tell me if you feel I have stepped over the line.

I don't think it's intrusive at all.

Player 3 is more if a brat than ass. He is used to getting things his own way out of game and has very definate opinions on things and makes it known. He is however not rude to anyone, my partner included. In game he plays in character and is not bratty or an ass unless his character is.

Player 4 & 5 have said they are OK with the engaged couple and are not uncomfortable at all. They are both VERY new players and not familiar with the possible effects. I'm still trying to get player 5 to remember when he is in and out of character.

The engagement is common knowlege because player 3 and I are standing with the groom in the wedding and players 4&5 are friends of player 1 and are invited to attend the wedding.

 

[fusangite]

As far as I can see, my agenda is to get the players, all of them; to think for themselves and not just in game.

First of all, I think you have a mistaken idea of what a DM's role is. You are not running a personal growth seminar; you are running a game. D&D games are designed to provide people with opportunities to have fun, not to force people to change their personalities whether they like it or not. These people have agreed to be entertained by you not to have you perform untrained psychotherapy on them.

Secondly, you're missing my point. This person is thinking for himself. And his conclusion is to take somebody else's advice. There are all kinds of times when, as a result of thinking for myself, I decide to defer to someone else's judgement in a particular area of my life.

If you really believe this person should be thinking for himself, then let him think for himself by respecting the decisions he is making.

My players are all under 22 and (this is a generalization NOT to be taken as an affront) IMHO people at that age need to develop a fine tuned problem solving thought process that can assist them in everyday life, jobs, college, whatever. I believe creative thinking and problem solving skills can be learned by playing D&D.

I strongly suggest you look in the mirror here. What do you think entitles you to shape these people's intellectual and psychological development? What qualifies you to know how to run their interpersonal interactions better than they do, to think you can teach them how to live/think through your little campaign?

You need to focus on what the goal of an RPG campaign is: an RPG campaign is a form of social entertainment; it is not therapy; it is not education; it is not the bloody Girl Guides/Boy Scouts; you're not there to mould young minds; you're there to facilitate people having a good time. Now, if you find you can't have a good time because of the nature of these people's relationship, perhaps some self-examination is in order.

 

[MoonZar]

I don't think it's intrusive at all.

Player 3 is more if a brat than ass. He is used to getting things his own way out of game and has very definate opinions on things and makes it known. He is however not rude to anyone, my partner included. In game he plays in character and is not bratty or an ass unless his character is.

Player 4 & 5 have said they are OK with the engaged couple and are not uncomfortable at all. They are both VERY new players and not familiar with the possible effects. I'm still trying to get player 5 to remember when he is in and out of character.

The engagement is common knowlege because player 3 and I are standing with the groom in the wedding and players 4&5 are friends of player 1 and are invited to attend the wedding.

Hello LadyDm,

I think you should simply tell players number 3 politly that you allow each of your player to play the story they want and the character they want if this can fit in your campaign.

This same for players 3 to have the right to build his character as he see fit, but he can't control the other player or ask you to do so.

I still don't understand why players 3 think that a problem, but personaly the players in my game have no control on what the other want to do with their character.

As DM i dont even try to change the story of character by force if this not disrupt my campaign.

However make sure that these romance, or relationship beetwen the two character don't take too much room in your campaign or the other players will be but in second plan and this could be very bad... Maybe this what players 3 is afraid of...

 

[twofalls]

If you really believe this person should be thinking for himself, then let him think for himself by respecting the decisions he is making.I strongly suggest you look in the mirror here. What do you think entitles you to shape these people's intellectual and psychological development? What qualifies you to know how to run their interpersonal interactions better than they do, to think you can teach them how to live/think through your little campaign?

You need to focus on what the goal of an RPG campaign is: an RPG campaign is a form of social entertainment; it is not therapy; it is not education; it is not the bloody Girl Guides/Boy Scouts; you're not there to mould young minds; you're there to facilitate people having a good time. Now, if you find you can't have a good time because of the nature of these people's relationship, perhaps some self-examination is in order.

You actually have very valid points here, but your anger damages your argument. Chill man.

 

[Templetroll]

I'd advise speaking to the naysayer and find out why he has a problem with an in-game tie between the two. Is he feeling left out or something? Two of my friends always seem to have their characters be brothers or the like when they play, and I just find it amusing, although I've heard people say they are jealous or that they now want a sibling in the game. One time, the whole party ended up split into groups of two that were siblings. I wasn't in that game but I heard about it.

Anyways, if the guy has a legitimate beef (from your point of view) then try to work something out with the couple. If not, then ask him to deal with it.

You could say the entire party is an extended family or all have an alliance of some kind with all other members of the group.

In one game we had three halfling brothers and an adopted sister - an elf the halfling dad brought home from a bungled burglary. He grabbed the wrong bundle off the bed when he had to escape from the house.

It's all good, no matter how silly a story you need to come up with to explain it.

 

[TheEvil]

I really like this idea and will talk with her today about it and see what she thinks. THANKS!!

Mind letting us know how it works out?