Negative Energy Adept

[Animus]

Negative Energy Adept

Prerequisites: Improved Turning, Spell Focus (Necromancy), ability to channel Negative Energy, Wizard Specialist (Necromancy)
Benefit: You may add your Mystic Theurge level to your Cleric level when determining the power of your Rebuke Undead.
Normal: Only your cleric level determines the power of your ability to rebuke undead.

 

[El Jefe]

Ok, this is definitely not balanced. You need to be 6th level (3rd level arcane caster + 3rd level divine caster) to take this class. So, by the time you hit 16th level (3+3+10 levels of master necromancer), you cast as a multiclass 12th level arcane caster/12th level divine caster. Even if you only have the HD and saves of a 16th level character, you cast as a 24th level caster! Pretty potent if you ask me.

One way to balance this would be to allow the character to choose to advance in either his divine or arcane class at each level. And if the question is, "Why would anyone choose this PrC instead of just multiclassing as, say, Cleric/Wizard", the answer is that you need to sweeten the pot just a little bit. For example, allowing him to turn as a cleric of his total levels. For example, as he advances through the PrC, he takes 5 levels of "arcane casting" and 4 levels of "divine casting". But still let him turn as a cleric of 13th level (3 Cleric + 10 Master Necromancer), even though he didn't choose to advance his divine casting abilities at each level.

Another thing you can do is award bonus spells per day from either the death domain or from the necromantic school. Or allow some necromantic ability as a spell-like or supernatural power X times per day. Be creative.

Finally, maybe I'm being dense, but what constitutes being able to "channel negative energy"? Being able to cast a necromantic spell?

 

[Animus]

Ok, this is definitely not balanced. You need to be 6th level (3rd level arcane caster + 3rd level divine caster) to take this class. So, by the time you hit 16th level (3+3+10 levels of master necromancer), you cast as a multiclass 12th level arcane caster/12th level divine caster. Even if you only have the HD and saves of a 16th level character, you cast as a 24th level caster! Pretty potent if you ask me.

I disagree. The PrC is almost exactly like the mystic theurge, with the exception of the levels stacking for rebuke/command undead at first level. Besides, a 24th level caster can cast epic spells, and has a 24 levels to cast on. If you keep your clr/wiz levels even, this class (and the mystic theurge as well) tops out at 8th level spells, and and 15th caster level, arcane and divine. Not that over the top, IMHO. If you think the MT is unbalanced, then, yes, I can go with that. But that's not a discussion for this thread.

One way to balance this would be to allow the character to choose to advance in either his divine or arcane class at each level.

Perhaps. But see my above response.

And if the question is, "Why would anyone choose this PrC instead of just multiclassing as, say, Cleric/Wizard", the answer is that you need to sweeten the pot just a little bit. For example, allowing him to turn as a cleric of his total levels. For example, as he advances through the PrC, he takes 5 levels of "arcane casting" and 4 levels of "divine casting". But still let him turn as a cleric of 13th level (3 Cleric + 10 Master Necromancer), even though he didn't choose to advance his divine casting abilities at each level.

Maybe I didn't make it clear, but that is the first level power. After that, it's the speallcasting progression.

Another thing you can do is award bonus spells per day from either the death domain or from the necromantic school. Or allow some necromantic ability as a spell-like or supernatural power X times per day. Be creative.

Those are good ideas. I'll take them into consideration.

Finally, maybe I'm being dense, but what constitutes being able to "channel negative energy"? Being able to cast a necromantic spell?

Being able to rebuke undead.

 

[Bront]

El Jefe, i beg to to differ, this is fairly well balanced with the Mystic Theurge. the loss of an extra caster level is huge as well. There are things a 16th level Wizard can do a 12th level wizard can't. What you get is reduced power but added flexability. It doesn't look balanced at first, but it is quite well balanced by the fact that the power level is lower on all spells, AND you only can take one action at a time, so in combat you're less usefull than 2 casters of equivielent caster level.

However, given that, I don't see the point of this class, because other than the Command/Rebuke undead, it's identical to the Mystic Theurge. Seems fairly redundant and unnessessary.

Also, the gap in Command Undead power will be rough, and at higher levels, less useful anyway.

If you realy want something unique, I'd give it a few bonus necromatic powers instead, and either only go up with one caster type, or alternate each level between them. But as is, it might as well be a Mystic Theurge.

 

[Animus]

El Jefe, i beg to to differ, this is fairly well balanced with the Mystic Theurge. the loss of an extra caster level is huge as well. There are things a 16th level Wizard can do a 12th level wizard can't. What you get is reduced power but added flexability. It doesn't look balanced at first, but it is quite well balanced by the fact that the power level is lower on all spells, AND you only can take one action at a time, so in combat you're less usefull than 2 casters of equivielent caster level.

However, given that, I don't see the point of this class, because other than the Command/Rebuke undead, it's identical to the Mystic Theurge. Seems fairly redundant and unnessessary.

Also, the gap in Command Undead power will be rough, and at higher levels, less useful anyway.

If you realy want something unique, I'd give it a few bonus necromatic powers instead, and either only go up with one caster type, or alternate each level between them. But as is, it might as well be a Mystic Theurge.

Appreciate the constructive feedback. Sometimes it's really hard to see these types of things when working on your own. You think you have a brilliant idea, and it turns out to be over powered or just plain bland. Looks like I have some work to do on this one.

 

[Bront]

Appreciate the constructive feedback. Sometimes it's really hard to see these types of things when working on your own. You think you have a brilliant idea, and it turns out to be over powered or just plain bland. Looks like I have some work to do on this one.

It's interesting, and I don't think it's bad, probably perfect for a home campaign, but I don't think we're looking for a ton of minor tweek PrCs. If it gets to something that minor, you can find feats to make up for it.

But, that's my opinion as well. Others may like it and want to keep it (I know at least one person who's been planning a master of the undead Mystic Theurge in LEW.)

 

[Animus]

Ah, screw it, I'm going back to the drawing board. Just forget you ever saw this thread .

 

[El Jefe]

Until this proposal, I never considered all the implications of the Mystic Theurge. You give up 3 caster levels and a few feats for 10 free levels worth of spellcasting in another class.

Wow. I really can't believe that works. Anyone played one at those levels?

 

[Bront]

I haven't played it, but it I have built them, and they're underpowered compaired to a full blown cleric or wizard at the same total level.

You give up from Cleric:
d8 HD
Turn/Rebuke Undead advancement
one good save
The ability to cast in armor (Arcane failure on arcane spells, which is a bit part of the character)
Medium BAB (About +3 BAB net)

You give up as a Wizard:
Familiar advancement (you get more HP at least, but no more intelegence or abilities)
Bonus Feats

Basicly, it's a way to make a multi-classed Cleric/Wizard a viable multi-class. But you give up access to 9th level spells, have less higher level spells to access, and get the spell levels later (You're 3 levels behind in spell progression on both tables, so 3rd level spells at 8th level, 4th at 10th, etc). It balances out fairly well, if not in the favor for the single class casters.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I find El Jefe's first reply to be somewhat unusual, as Bront has later pointed out. When I first saw this, I didn't have the time to mention it, but the Prestige Class is actually underpowered compared to the normal MyT in that it loses out where theurges are already the weakest by not advancing at the beginning, and it only gains the fairly useless Turn Undead.

And actually, the normal MyT is just a bit underpowered itself over all. My suggestion would be to create a feat for this and just play a Mystic Theurge. I first was going to suggest giving back the level and adding stricter skill and feat prereqs, but then I realised that two Theurge classes create the problem of the character who takes both.