Negative Energy Adept

[Animus]

I find El Jefe's first reply to be somewhat unusual, as Bront has later pointed out. When I first saw this, I didn't have the time to mention it, but the Prestige Class is actually underpowered compared to the normal MyT in that it loses out where theurges are already the weakest by not advancing at the beginning, and it only gains the fairly useless Turn Undead.

And actually, the normal MyT is just a bit underpowered itself over all. My suggestion would be to create a feat for this and just play a Mystic Theurge. I first was going to suggest giving back the level and adding stricter skill and feat prereqs, but then I realised that two Theurge classes create the problem of the character who takes both.

A feat you say? That may be the way to go. I'll give that some thought.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think that all things considered (all things being that Mystic Theurges are underpowered and that Necromancers have been totally screwed in 3.5 by virtue of needing to pick 2 useful schools as opposition), a feat that read like this would be fine:

Negative Energy Adept

Prerequisites--
Spell Focus: Necromancy, ability to channel Negative Energy, Speciality: Necromancy

Effects--
You may add your Mystic Theurge level to your Cleric level when determining the power of your Rebuke Undead.

 

[Bront]

THat works fairly well, has some prereqs that make it not an easy feat either.

 

[Rystil Arden]

THat works fairly well, has some prereqs that make it not an easy feat either.

Yup. And it shouldn't be super-easy, since it is a fairly useful power to have. But the prereqs make sense flavour-wise for the kind of character I think Animus was trying to imply with this PrC

 

[El Jefe]

I find El Jefe's first reply to be somewhat unusual, as Bront has later pointed out. When I first saw this, I didn't have the time to mention it, but the Prestige Class is actually underpowered compared to the normal MyT in that it loses out where theurges are already the weakest by not advancing at the beginning, and it only gains the fairly useless Turn Undead.

And actually, the normal MyT is just a bit underpowered itself over all.

As I see it, one of the big strengths of 3.0 and 3.5 is that they make pretty much any race/class combination, and any multiclass combination viable and balanced. No more trading off in the sense of "I'd like to play an illusionist, so I'll have to make him a gnome" or "I'd like to be a F/Mu/Th", so I can't be a dwarf, or "I'd like to play a F/Dr/Mu, but there's no such thing." That all went away, and I thought the overriding concept was that you can multiclass any which way you want (alignment requirements and such notwithstanding), and that you give up something and get something of equal value in return. After all, it costs the same amount of XP to be a Cl 5/Wiz 5 as it does to be a Cl 10 or a Wiz 10.

This discussion really rubbed my nose in the fact that the concept of Cleric/Wiz is really broken in 3.5. MyT is a pretty bald admission of that fact. It's just that I hadn't really thought about MyT before, and hadn't grasped the implications.

 

[Animus]

Yup. And it shouldn't be super-easy, since it is a fairly useful power to have. But the prereqs make sense flavour-wise for the kind of character I think Animus was trying to imply with this PrC

That's what I was trying to go for. How 'bout I edit this post with the said changes.

 

[Velmont]

Wow. I really can't believe that works. Anyone played one at those levels?

I played a Cebremancer once, it's a Mystic Theurge, but for Psion/Wizard. I must tell he was a bit more powerfull than a single class wizard. his big problem is he didn,t had the big spell of the higher levels he should have, but at least, he could keep going and going for a long time before running out of spell. In one combat, he is weaker (he can't cast two spell at a time anyway), but on the long run, he is stronger.

The mystic theurge have one more weakness over the Cebremancer: Abilities scores. To cast Cleric spell, you need high Wisdom. For Wizard, high intelligence (For Cebremancer, you need both Int ) That is another problem for the Mystic Theurge, as he will see his DC lower by 1 or 2 compare to the full wizard or full cleric. So his spell are less effective.

 

[Velmont]

Negative Energy Adept

Prerequisites: Spell Focus (Necromancy), ability to channel Negative Energy, Wizard Specialist (Necromancy)
Benefit: You may add your Mystic Theurge level to your Cleric level when determining the power of your Rebuke Undead.
Normal: Only your cleric level determines the power of your ability to rebuke undead.

So it wouldn't apply on Turning undead, or turning/rebuking anything else (like elemental for cleric with elemental domain).

Seems fine at first sight, anywya, he would still be 3 level behind a full cleric of teh same level, so he wouldn,t be able to compete with him in a control challenge, the full cleric would most likely win.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'm really surprised you've been playing 3.X this long without realising how much it sucks to play a multiclassed caster. Wizard10/Cleric10 is a worthless trash character She is so incredibly bad, that she is guaranteed to be less effective than the cohorts of the other characters, if the other characters have any cohorts. She can generally cast fewer spells in total than her Wiz20 and Clr20 friends, and of lower levels too--but wait, she has both Divine and Arcane spells that are outdated, not that it helps.

Edit: The secret is that a Wiz20 is MUCH more than 20x as powerful as Wiz1 in all ways that matter, and everything that makes it that powerful (the more powerful spells and caster level increase) cannot be duplicated in whole or in part by taking another base class. Meanwhile, a level 20 Fighter is 20x as effective or less in most ways that matter (BAB, HP, saves, feats) and taking any other class will give you all of these things, and sometimes just as quickly as you would get them with Fighter, plus they will generally give you other cool abilities if they have a trade-off.

 

[Velmont]

I'm really surprised you've been playing 3.X this long without realising how much it sucks to play a multiclassed caster. Wizard10/Cleric10 is a worthless trash character She is so incredibly bad, that she is guaranteed to be less effective than the cohorts of the other characters, if the other characters have any cohorts. She can generally cast fewer spells in total than her Wiz20 and Clr20 friends, and of lower levels too--but wait, she has both Divine and Arcane spells that are outdated, not that it helps.

Edit: The secret is that a Wiz20 is MUCH more than 20x as powerful as Wiz1 in all ways that matter, and everything that makes it that powerful (the more powerful spells and caster level increase) cannot be duplicated in whole or in part by taking another base class. Meanwhile, a level 20 Fighter is 20x as effective or less in most ways that matter (BAB, HP, saves, feats) and taking any other class will give you all of these things, and sometimes just as quickly as you would get them with Fighter, plus they will generally give you other cool abilities if they have a trade-off.

That's why most ECL races sucks for spellcasting. A single level is lost is ok but an hinderance. 2 level is very bad, 3 is horrible and I wouldn't even think about an ECL+4... And most ECL are race that have advanatge for non caster type of character anyway (like more Str on Con, greater size, ect...)