Nentir Vale Coming to Dungeons and Dragons

[DEFCON 1]

Fans and players of the 1E Forgotten Realms Grey Box have seen their campaign setting destroyed dozens of times over by every single new FR product that has been released over the last 30 years. Are any of you pouring one out for those poor people?

 

[SkidAce]

Fans and players of the 1E Forgotten Realms Grey Box have seen their campaign setting destroyed dozens of times over by every single new FR product that has been released over the last 30 years. Are any of you pouring one out for those poor people?

Hail and Commiserations!

/raises mug...

 

[Parmandur]

Okay let's look at how this realistically plays out. Unless these hypothetical new players are both watching the stream and taking copious notes in order to run their game there (highly unlikely) they are going to turn to google to get information on the Nentir Vale once their interest has been piqued by the show. And since Mearl's version of the Nentir Vale isn't published anywhere guess where that google search leads them... to the 4e version.

Now if they get invested in the Vale as a setting, they may realize some of the changes Mearls has implemented... this does in fact give them an example of homebrewing a setting which again since it's official form (as well as nearly all information on the internet) only exists as the Nentir Vale released for 4e isn't showing them anything has been changed officially. At this point it's up to them to decide whether they want to keep their Vale canon, integrate some/all of Mearl's changes or implement their own changes (actually they could do a combination of the last two as well). I think you are vastly underestimating the accessibility of information on the setting as well as the practical value to someone of a homebrewed stream, who is actually interested in setting a game in the Nentir Vale. If anything fans of the Nentir Vale should be happy this show is throwing the setting into the spotlight and generating buzz/interest around it instead of complaining that it's not being ran exactly as presented in 4e.

EDIT: There's also the fact that research on the internet into the Nentir Vale is going to lead them to DM's Guild... which has the original 4e books with that version of the Nentir Vale. this seems more about people being mad Mearls changed some things in their precious setting and using a flimsy justification for why it shouldn't happen.

Mearls gave a run-down of where all the relevant setting information could be found o nthe DMsGuil on the latest Happy Fun Hour.

 

[Zeromaru X]

If it's not official it's not the 5e version. I find it strange that people expect/want Mearls to run a strictly by the book campaign, and sorry, but I'm glad he didn't. I think it's better to show new players who may be watching the stream that they don't necessarily have to be beholden to what's printed in a book... it's your game and any DM should feel like they have the freedom to make any campaign world their own.

I don't have any problem with Mearls doing whatever he wants for his campaign, as long as those changes don't affect something outside his campaign. That we know is not the case seeing what they did to the Raven Queen.

Fans and players of the 1E Forgotten Realms Grey Box have seen their campaign setting destroyed dozens of times over by every single new FR product that has been released over the last 30 years. Are any of you pouring one out for those poor people?

And I feel that they have all the right to voice their opinions if they want. And I know they have, as I'm also an user at Candlekeep.

 

[Imaro]

I don't have any problem with Mearls doing whatever he wants for his campaign, as long as those changes don't affect something outside his campaign. That we know is not the case seeing what they did to the Raven Queen.

There was a recent change made to the Raven Queen in an official 5e book? If so, what book? Because the stream has only been running for about 2-3 weeks at this point...

 

[Zeromaru X]

There was a recent change made to the Raven Queen in an official 5e book? If so, what book? Because the stream has only been running for about 2-3 weeks at this point...

He was re-tooling many of the Dawn War gods for his campaign. You can download his take on Erathis, Lolth, Melora and Torog on his Twitter account. He has been working on his Nentir Vale campaign since (at least) the last year.

And suddenly, they changed the lore of the Raven Queen in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes. I don't see this as a coincidence.

 

[Imaro]

He was re-tooling many of the Dawn War gods for his campaign. You can download his take on Erathis, Lolth, Melora and Torog on his Twitter account. He has been working on his Nentir Vale campaign since (at least) the last year.

And suddenly, they changed the lore of the Raven Queen in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes. I don't see this as a coincidence.

Given the lead time for a book like that it seems very unlikely Mearls homebrew tweets or stream were the impetus for the change to the Raven Queen (And if they were why don;t all the gods line up with his homebrewedd version?). I think it's much more likely he decided to use that version of the RQ because he preferred it and/or because it's the 5e version and he is playing 5e. Honestly changing a single god is pretty insignificant when looking at the usual changes an edition ushers in...

 

[Zeromaru X]

Honestly changing a single god is pretty insignificant when looking at the usual changes an edition ushers in...

An edition changes rules, not lore. Even the Forgotten Realms lore is expanded, perhaps a few retcons to explain why this work that way (magic, for instance) not fully retconned from zero, that was the Raven Queen's case. She was fully changed: her background, her character, even her role was completely retconned.

And, well, we don't know if his takes on Erathis, Melora and Torog will be the next ones appearing in an official book, that's true. I guess we'll see when (if) the Vale or some of its elements got published officially.

 

[Ash Mantle]

An edition changes rules, not lore.

That's not true though, is it?
The supplements of Faction War and Die, Vecna, Die basically heralded the edition changes from 2nd into 3rd, and a whole lot of lore was changed for a variety of settings as a consequence.

It could also be argued that the Time of Troubles, and the changing of lore surrounding that Realms-shaking event, was basically a transition of edition from 1st into 2nd. Likewise, the Spellplague was a drastic change from 3rd edition FR lore into 4th edition FR lore. And then 5th edition changed that lore again.

As a lesser example, in 2e, the Red Wizards of Thay were a megomanical bunch of would-be conquerors, in 3e an internal faction of that organisation/governmental body was made into a an expansionist mercantile venture. That was a pretty cool change of lore.

 

[Zeromaru X]

But that is, as you said, advancement of lore because of consecuences of certain metaplots.

Yes, the Time of Troubles changed the Realms because some gods died. Logical consecuences of the novels. Whether you consider this metaplot good or bad, is another story.

But, they did not changed the Realms into a high-technological, sci-fy setting run by intelligent dinosaurs.

Yeah, quite wild but that is how it feels the changes they did to the Raven Queen in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes. And the Nentir Vale setting in Mearl's game.