New 1st level spell

[Mark1733]

I posted this in the other 3E forum, but got no replies. I was hoping to get some thoughts on it.

What do you all think of the following 1st-lvl spell:

Rainbow Cloud
Conjuration
Components: VSM
Casting Time: 1 std action
Range: Close
Effect: 15-ft cube (3x3x3 squares)
Duration: 1 rd/lvl
Save: Fort (neg)
SR: No

Creates a swirling mixture of multi-colored particles of different energies (fire, cold, acid, poison, electricity). Anyone caught in the cloud, not fully immune to all five energies and fails the save is sickened from the irritation of the energized particles. If the fail is by 5 or more, the victim is also affected by the swirling colors and is nauseated for that round until he steps out of the cloud.

I was hoping to get something like a pyrotechnics, stinking cloud, or cloud of bewilderment without all the collateral damage for a 20-ft spread or more since any of the above can do this. The spell doesn't really improve with level other than duration, but I am open to how it could without being unbalanced.

Thoughts? Is there any existing 1st-lvl spells that work just as well?

 

[Shin Okada]

I was hoping to get something like a pyrotechnics, stinking cloud, or cloud of bewilderment without all the collateral damage for a 20-ft spread or more since any of the above can do this.

How about taking Sculpt Spell metamagic feat from Complete Arcane? You can modify the area of the spells you have mentioned.

 

[Physiker]

I wouldn't go with a line like : "Failed save by 5 or more..."
but make an HD cap as with colorspray for example.

 

[Mark1733]

I wouldn't go with a line like : "Failed save by 5 or more..."
but make an HD cap as with colorspray for example.

Thanks for your reply.

Why not? What is your reasoning? I couldn't gather it from the second part of your reply.

Looking at Mutant and Masterminds, that seems to be a common excalation of effect. Also, it would be Fort related, so higher level creatures would have a better chance to save. I think it adds to the POTENTIAL power of the spell. But the only real improvement with caster level is the amount of time it sticks around.

 

[Physiker]

I just looked at some similar spells at first levels, namely colorspray and sleep.
I don't know mastminds nor mutant so the line: "Failed save by 5 or more..." seemed new to me.
If the spells you refer to have such a line and are level 1 spells then I see no problem with this spell.

 

[shadyizok]

Rainbow Cloud
Conjuration
Components: VSM
Casting Time: 1 std action
Range: Close
Effect: 15-ft cube (3x3x3 squares)
Duration: 1 rd/lvl
Save: Fort (neg)
SR: No

Creates a swirling mixture of multi-colored particles of different energies (fire, cold, acid, poison, electricity). Anyone caught in the cloud, not fully immune to all five energies and fails the save is sickened from the irritation of the energized particles. If the fail is by 5 or more, the victim is also affected by the swirling colors and is nauseated for that round until he steps out of the cloud.

Do the particles impair vision somehow? Should things have concealment in it? I don't care for the by 5 or more line either. I'dd go for a HD aswell. Maybe you could make that part of the improves with caster lvl part by doing something like: creatures with a HD equal or lower then your caster lvl (max 5) who fail their save become nauseated instead.
Be carefull of scaling with lvl because it soon becomes to powerfull for lvl 1.

 

[Mark1733]

Do the particles impair vision somehow? Should things have concealment in it? I don't care for the by 5 or more line either. I'dd go for a HD aswell. Maybe you could make that part of the improves with caster lvl part by doing something like: creatures with a HD equal or lower then your caster lvl (max 5) who fail their save become nauseated instead.
Be carefull of scaling with lvl because it soon becomes to powerfull for lvl 1.

Originally, concealment was included in the concept. But my DM thought that started to think it was too strong for a first level spell. Also, it began to look too much like pyrotechnics or stinking cloud.

I am not disagreeing with the comments on using max HD over a "fail by 5 or more" statement, but I am not sure why you guys favor the max HD limitation. In this instance, what would HD have to do with anything? The level is reflected in the Fort save. Eventually, only if they roll a 1 will my enemies get nauseated--but they can still possibly get nauseated. We are decently high level that we are fighting creatures of 6 or more HD regularly--the nauseating effect would never work. But it is possible for a mage or thief with a lower Fort save progression to fail by 5 or more. That could seriously impede such an enemy. I would rather have some chance than no chance at all.

I appreciate the discussion. Thanks.

 

[Mark1733]

How about taking Sculpt Spell metamagic feat from Complete Arcane? You can modify the area of the spells you have mentioned.

Just to answer your question, Shin Okada, I only have Pyrotechnics at this time and I only want to swap out a 1st level spell at my even sorcerer level. Sculpt spell doesn't do much for me with all the other spells I have.

Thanks for the input.

Mark

 

[FoxWander]

I am not disagreeing with the comments on using max HD over a "fail by 5 or more" statement, but I am not sure why you guys favor the max HD limitation. In this instance, what would HD have to do with anything? The level is reflected in the Fort save. Eventually, only if they roll a 1 will my enemies get nauseated--but they can still possibly get nauseated. We are decently high level that we are fighting creatures of 6 or more HD regularly--the nauseating effect would never work. But it is possible for a mage or thief with a lower Fort save progression to fail by 5 or more. That could seriously impede such an enemy. I would rather have some chance than no chance at all.

I appreciate the discussion. Thanks.

The only problem with "fail by 5 or more" is that no other D&D spell uses that mechanic. While it's a perfectly fine escalation mechanic, it just doesn't fit with other spells. It's the same reason for the HD limit suggestions- that's a mechanic that several other (especially low level) spells have. And since there's a potential for nauseating creatures the spell needs some kind of limit.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Looking at Mutant and Masterminds, that seems to be a common excalation of effect.

Mutants & Masterminds uses staged saves because it doesn't use hit points and it doesn't have the rapid escalation of power that the spells in D&D have, as they go up in level. "Mutants & Masterminds does it" isn't a logical reason that having a staged save is okay, therefore.

That said, I don't really think staged saves are antithetical to D&D ... there are already several examples, though I can't think of any off the top of my head.

That said, I believe the spell you've written is significantly too powerful for a first-level spell.