New adventure path from ENP

[RangerWickett]

Russ, I just sent you a 5-page outline for a possible campaign saga.

Let me ask the folks here, what are your thoughts about steamtech fantasy? Not steampunk exactly, because I'm too young to be a good punk anyway, but rather a mixing of physically plausible steam age technology with D&D-style magic and monsters?

 

[Insight]

Russ, I just sent you a 5-page outline for a possible campaign saga.

Let me ask the folks here, what are your thoughts about steamtech fantasy? Not steampunk exactly, because I'm too young to be a good punk anyway, but rather a mixing of physically plausible steam age technology with D&D-style magic and monsters?

When you start introducing "technology" (beyond that which is found in typical D&D), it usually butts heads with magic. In other words, why would this technology have developed in a world where magic is prevalent?

If the steam technology and the magic don't step all over each others' toes, I think it could make a fine setting. The only issue with 4E magic is that everything is magic, so separating what the steam tech does from what magic can do is going to be a little tricky.

If the steam technology is mere backdrop (interesting backdrop, mind you, but still backdrop), it doesn't necesitate major fluff (or crunch) changes at all. I guess, in the end, it depends on how much you want to feature the steam technology in the adventure versus how much you want to show it in the background.

 

[renau1g]

I liked it in FF3 and find it interesting. Eberron kinda has this vibe with their heavy use of magic to create modern technology like planes, trains and automobiles. They use magic though and not steam-power. Is it more cost-effective than magic? Like Insight said if there's a reason for it, cool, perhaps the common man has a natural distrust of magic and this is their way of still having access to wonderful inventions.

 

[bert1000]

I agree that Skill Challenges should remain a part of EWP 4E adventures and I agree that they must have tangible rewards or penalties for their outcomes.

I disagree that Skill Challenges must be "life-or-death" however

Just like a combat that ends in TPK, a Skill Challenge that ends with "game-over" for the adventure is bad form on the part of the DM and the designer

Agreed. The rewards and penalties don't have to be earth shattering every time. And they should never be game ending. However, they do need to be personally meaningful for the PCs and the players. This also means the players can fail at a goal they care about. Failing at a goal can be great fun and increases the sense of "my actions have consequences" and investment in the story by the players. The failure should hurt, but also open up a new avenue of adventure. I know this is a little harder to do with published modules, but should be easier to do for EN than a publisher with more constraints...

 

[bert1000]

100% agree with bert1000.

Persnoally I'm doing that with the WotBS adventures I'm running.

Would you be willing to start another thread and post when you used a SC in WotBS, the SC goal, and failure/success parameters (I don't think the individual skills likely to be used, etc. are necessary)?

I know I would be very interested.

 

[Insight]

Agreed. The rewards and penalties don't have to be earth shattering every time. And they should never be game ending. However, they do need to be personally meaningful for the PCs and the players. This also means the players can fail at a goal they care about. Failing at a goal can be great fun and increases the sense of "my actions have consequences" and investment in the story by the players. The failure should hurt, but also open up a new avenue of adventure. I know this is a little harder to do with published modules, but should be easier to do for EN than a publisher with more constraints...

The intrinsic problem with skill challenges is that they can amount to nothing more than railroading unless done in a very clever manner in which the consequences of success or failure have an impact on the rest of the adventure, or at the very least, the course of perhaps the next encounter.

I'd say a good rule of thumb should be: If you can't imagine two different outcomes for the encounter, it's not a skill challenge. With that said, I'd like to see less skill challenges, not because I don't like the idea of skill challenges, but that they usually devolve into a die rolling exercise and nothing more. Making the skill challenge count is definitely the tricky part from a design perspective.

 

[DragoonLance]

I enjoy steampunk, but I agree with Insight that it needs to be carefully thought out in what it changes. One of the most well known steampunk settings is Iron Kingdoms, and they IMO are a bad example, due to the overabundance of firearms, specifically machine guns and cannon that would radically alter the state of warfare and the use of magic in a fantasy world. Something along the lines of Eberron's house Cannith that use steampower instead of elementals (or using elementals to make steam engines that don't need refueling) could work without affecting the PCs too much, especially if the engines are too large and bulky for anything smaller than a train or ship.

While I love some of the quirky techno-magical stuff from FF and Eberron, once you have mass transit it makes a POL setting much more implausable unless you have a Wild West idea in mind...which could actually work nicely with a heroic tier West Marches kind of plot. The PCs could do "explore the frontier" missions at low levels, then help defend and/or keep the peace in their new towns/settlements. It's something I've been thinking of running for a group of gamer friends that love board games like Settlers of Catan.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

I would enjoy a "Wild West Frontier Steampunk Fantasy" adventure, although I'm not so sure about an entire 30 level series

I'd also enjoy a WotBS sequel where a new adventuring party have to deal with some unforeseen consequences of the original adventures... Set 10-20 years after the original, and crafty DMs could feature some of the original adventurers as powerful NPCs

 

[fr33py]

Everyone has their own tastes. Personally I enjoy D&D for its fantasy setting. Preferably I enjoy High Fantasy. The idea of Wild West, Steam punk style leaves little to be desired by myself and I think I speak for my group of players as well. I wouldn't immediately dismiss the thought of running it, but it wouldn't be favored for us.

I would also like to see a full 1-30 AP. If others wanted to play certain sections of the AP they could still do so but I'd rather have the option to strip things out then have to come up with my own content to fill in the gaps if the production was only going to cover a small range of levels. I personally look to material already written as my group (and by that I mean me) doesn't exactly have the time to write all original material for adventuring. Between work and other hobbies I find my time straining as is just trying to prep for each weekly session.

So far WotBS has been fantastic and I look forward to another 1- 30 AP from EWP.

Shannon

 

[Stormrazor2000]

Russ, I just sent you a 5-page outline for a possible campaign saga.

Let me ask the folks here, what are your thoughts about steamtech fantasy? Not steampunk exactly, because I'm too young to be a good punk anyway, but rather a mixing of physically plausible steam age technology with D&D-style magic and monsters?

While this sounds interesting, it would be much harder to adapt the AP to other campaign worlds. A real selling point (at least to me) of WotBS is that it can faily easily be incorporated into just about any fantasy setting.