New adventure path from ENP

[humble minion]

In general terms, I'm a big fan of steamtech type stuff, but I can certainly see where people's issue with it are. 'Needs too many supplemental rules beyond the standard rulebooks' is perfectly valid, as is 'not easily transportable to other campaign worlds'.

But perhaps something set during the RISE of steamtech is a possibility. Particularly if it's brand new but proliferating rapidly, and wizards/clerics are still getting used to the idea, and it's still raw and unreliable and risky, and there's still the lurking question 'is it really just applied natural laws and engineering, or is there something ELSE behind this whole steam business?' Steamtech as plot element rather than setting element.

Pirates seem to be getting a lot of love, but is it too soon since Savage Tide (or am I just saying that because I'm running Savage Tide right now?)

My list of things to include might be vikings and perhaps vampires (there hasn't been a good vampire AP yet, and they're full of plot possibilities). Something about the awakening of the ancient and legendary First Vampire, who lies sleeping in a secret tomb deep in the savage wilderness of the north. Vikings, vampires, dwarves, merciless and predatory druids, and maybe a just tiny little bit of steamtech to be going on with...

 

[Morrus]

Something about the awakening of the ancient and legendary First Vampire, who lies sleeping in a secret tomb deep in the savage wilderness of the north....

Oh, I dunno. If I ever see another "awakening of ancient evil" plot - in D&D or any fantasy genre - I might actually fall into a stupefied coma!

 

[humble minion]

Oh, I dunno. If I ever see another "awakening of ancient evil" plot - in D&D or any fantasy genre - I might actually fall into a stupefied coma!

there's gotta be an incredibly powerful evil of some description! It can be a new one or an old one - and both options have been done once or twice before...

 

[Blackbrrd]

Oh, I dunno. If I ever see another "awakening of ancient evil" plot - in D&D or any fantasy genre - I might actually fall into a stupefied coma!

Actually I couldn't agree more. I remember one high-level module where the characters were supposed to stop a demon from getting an artefact. Which was basically a fancy whip. Ooooohhh.... A WHIP!

Personally I would be more for a castle than a ship, but that's just me. Anyway, getting something else than just levels/fame as you level up sounds like fun.

(My problem with boats is that you end up overboard and that is no fun in fullplate, which is quite a deciding factor when selecting what class you want to play. As you noted yourself, both the Paladin and the Fighter are very popular as defenders, neither of which really likes boats.)

 

[renau1g]

Perhaps that's one of the upgrades you can earn? A net or something that triggers when someone falls out? There are pretty cheap shields of floating (lvl 1 item IIRC) that would negate this problem, just carry one on board.

 

[RangerWickett]

This is 4e, though. You can swim in plate armor and a shield pretty easily in 4e (silly though that is).

 

[Insight]

There are LOTS of ways to get around the plate armor problem and swimming. It shouldn't be an issue.

 

[renau1g]

Yeah it's just -4 for heavy shield + plate. If you're trained in athletics (most fighters are) and have a high Str (most fighters do) you should be around +4 to +5 at first level (16 - 18 str).

Only person I see struggling mightily is the Cha-based paladin with low Str. He could be as low as -4 at first level with 10 str.

 

[sfedi]

One of my main issues with the next AP I'm going to buy/run is the choices the players have.

One is tactical, within combat. Which is perfectly fine with 4E.
Another is within the adventuring day. Managing dailies, item uses, etc.
The other is within the adventure, what choices do they have, how can it be solved, etc.
And the other is within the campaign, analogous (sp?) to within the adventure.

I can feel how WotBS has great places for these different choices, but fails to formalize or show them. And to let the DM be aware of them too.

 

[KidSnide]

continuing WotB's style of no foregone conclusion that by completing each adventure the good guys will win, with actions in earlier adventures affecting later adventures;

maintaining the "for experienced DMs" theme, allowing us to include complex situations, NPCs and motivations which may not be easy to run for the beginning DM but very rewarding for those who put in the effort;

continuing grey areas and moral choices, and allowing the PCs to be on the "wrong" side (neither side being black or white).

I just want to call out these three points as areas of massive awesomeness in WoBS that I very much want to see continued in future ENP games.

One other thing I really like about WoBS is that it's epic fantasy, but it's still relatively contained in the world. In many plane-hopping stories, the world you come from becomes nothing more than a thing to save (and occationally shop in). A tighter story like WoBS explores the world, and then takes place there. There's nothing wrong with a multi-planar world (like Planescape) in which the PCs are *from* those planes, but you don't want an AP in which all the connections the PCs forge in the heroic tier become largely moot when the campaign switches to the astral plane a third of the way into the AP.

I'd also like to throw in a vote for a shorter AP (1-10?, 1-15?, maybe 1-20?). A full length AP is a serious time investment, and I'd like something long enough to see plot complexity and character development without needing to find a group that's ready to play together for 3-4 years. I know that, technically speaking, you can trim an AP, but a 1-30 AP like WoBS needs to have a huge satisfying obstacle to defeat at L30, and I think all the players know they aren't done if you stop before then.

Oh, and I like pirates as much as the next guy, but that feels like territory that has been well trodden as of late. Steamtech can also be fun, although I agree with an earlier poster who commented that it requires an unusually well thought out world. And while I'd really love to see a 4e kingmaker-style game, that kind of begs for some WotC-tested mass combat rules.

-KS