New chapter online

[Wyvern]

I've posted my rough draft of Chapter 5: Setting Design at www.msu.edu/~reesmatt/Cosmo2.rtf. It's not nearly as polished as I would've liked, but I'm going to be without Internet access all of next week, and I wanted to get it out before I left. I've also updated my first chapter with a few very minor modifications. When I get back I'm planning to start work on Chapter 4: Character Design as time permits.

Wyvern

 

[BlackJaw]

VERY cool. I like it a lot. Some parts impressed me a lot as they remain very simple, are based on current rules, and work well. Vacum damage for example.

There are a few questions/comments I'd like to make:
1) I don't know if we can reference Spelljammer or Shadowrun directly (by name) like that. Doing so may vilate OGC etc. I'd recommend a more indirect referencing. "Some Cosmos need not be a pure air system. In a fantasy setting it may be possible to have space be a vast vacuum, but have individual vessels and objects posses an air envelope. This should be considered an Air system despite the vacuum." kinda thing.

2) Some parts of the rules seemed a bit complex for me. I'll list them latter with more in depth study, but just a few are like that. Most seemed well written.

3) A section of example Cosmos ideas (very short and simple) would be nice. This would be a good place for a non-spicific Spelljammer reference. It would also be a place for concepts like Either (SP?) where space travel isn't in a vacuum, but in a strange fluid. (old theory) etc. I also think it would be very helpful for both people trying to come up with a cosmos idea and people trying to see how to best fit their ideas into the system.

Overall, GREAT work.

 

[Will Stanton]

An air medium and a vacuum medium are the same in terms of rules except for the effects of a hull breach, as described in the chapter on combat. In a water medium, the speed of a vessel, including its maximum speed, is cut in half (this does not affect creatures that have a swim speed or vehicles that are designed exclusively for a water medium). Creatures without a swim speed or a freedom of movement spell suffer a -2 penalty to attacks and damage while in the water. This does not usually apply to vehicle weapons, though some of these may not function underwater at all. Slashing and bludgeoning attacks do half damage (the damage is halved after any applicable penalties are applied) with a minimum of 1 point, unless you have a freedom of movement effect.

Could you then cast a modified version of freedom of movement that would enable the entire ship to move as if it was designed to move underwater? Maybe as a meta- magic feat? (or am I too far off topic with this question?)

7: Space Age (A.D. 2100-2300): Advanced projectile weapons, basic electromagnetic weaponry such as lasers and EMP weapons. Long-range interplanetary capability. Armor-quality polymers. Interplanetary communication. Extremely advanced electronics. Limited bionics, widespread robotics. Rudimentary genetic manipulation. Microtechnology. Continental industrialization.
8: Nanotech Age (A.D. 2300-2500): Advanced energy weaponry, defensive energy fields. Intersolar travel capability. Full cybertechnology, advanced robotics, nanotechnology. Basic artificial intelligence. Limited terraforming. Complex genetic manipulation, limited ability to create new lifeforms.

Sounds about right for the Star Trek timeline. Cool.

Tech Potential
In a cosmos with a tech potential of 9, any technology no matter how advanced will function normally. At lower tech potentials, using a technological item requires a Use Device check with a DC of 5 + spell level - tech potential. If the check is failed by 5 or more, the item breaks. In a cosmos with a rigid tech potential, items of a tech level higher than the tech potential will not function at all. If the tech potential is flexible, it is possible to use higher-level devices with a successful Use Device check, although the DC is 5 higher than that listed above. If a device with a tech level higher than the potential level of the cosmos breaks, it cannot be repaired until the owner returns to a cosmos with a higher tech potential.

This seems to be a little limiting to me. For magic, I can understand spells malfunctioning in different cosmos. However, unless the item itself contains magical properties, technology should only be difficult to use by someone not intimately familiar with it (i.e. in someone from a cosmos with a lower tech potential) if a magical power source is used, then obviously the device would be affected. Elemental-dependent power sources (solar power) would simply not function without the presence of the element, or might function at a slight disadvantage due to differences in the nature of similar elements between cosmoses.

Anyway, I understand that this rule is done as a play-balancing measure, but it seems somewhat unrealistic to me.

 

[BlackJaw]

The concept of tech not functioning outside some cosmos can be explained as the powers-that-be of that area (often magic rich) halting the advance of science... a theme developed by DMs everywhere that didn't want guns in their settings, etc.

It can also be explained as alterations on the fundimental nature of reality between Cosmoses... etc.

A lot of Sci-Fi (like startrek episodes) include regions of space where their equipment doesn't work, or powerful god like aliens that disable all advanced technology on a planet, etc. This is the mechanic for it.

 

[Will Stanton]

In other words, it's like in Star Trek when they say, " sorry sir, there's too much (technobabble term) radiation, so we can't get a lock on them".

 

[BlackJaw]

As far as spells working on vessels...

I was giving some thought to this, and I think a special MetaMagic feat could be used.

Now first of all, many spells work on vessels already... just you'd have to be a very powerful spellcaster to affect most vessels. A rule is needed that spells without a max object weight or size (like Non-Detection) do not work. Ones with a max weight or size, like Invisibility, work only if the ship weight is less then the max weight. THEN there is a feat that can be used:

BUT some spells you'd need to use a Metamagic feat.

This feat takes any spell that normaly wouldn't affect a vessel, and lets you try and apply it to the vessel. Feather Fall normaly won't work on a Vessel because it has a 300 lb max.

Invisibility has an impressive 100 lb/level Max... but a small Vessel is a lot more than that.

VESSEL SPELL [Metamagic]
You know how to weave a spell so that it wraps around a vessel.
This feat can be applied to any spell that has target of "object," and "touch," or "personal." A spell affected by this feat has it's target changed to Fine Vessels through Small Vessels. Applying this feat again, increases the range to Medium Vessels, again to Large ect. Six applications of this feat allows a spell to work on even the massive Colossal Vessels.
This feat increases the effective level of a spell by one for each application. Spells affected by this feat no longer work on nonvessels. Some spells may have no useful or noticable affect on some vessels, and your DM may not allows this feat with some spells.

This means a Feather Fall spell for a Small Vessel is a Level 2 spell. Invisibility for a Colossal vessel is a level 8 spell.
Spells that work with it:
Feather Fall
Non Detection
Invisibility
Obscure Object
Nystul's Magic Aura
Nystul's Undetectable Aura
Misdirection
Teleport

 

[ax0n]

If you interested in world-building the Netbook of Planes has created a set of rules for planes (and by association worlds) that you might be interested in using with the Cosmonomicon. You can download them here, called the rules for Plane Descriptions:

www.enworld.org/fancc/nbopl/downloads.asp

 

[Wyvern]

VERY cool. I like it a lot. Some parts impressed me a lot as they remain very simple, are based on current rules, and work well. Vacum damage for example.

Glad to hear it.

There are a few questions/comments I'd like to make:
1) I don't know if we can reference Spelljammer or Shadowrun directly (by name) like that. Doing so may vilate OGC etc. I'd recommend a more indirect referencing. "Some Cosmos need not be a pure air system. In a fantasy setting it may be possible to have space be a vast vacuum, but have individual vessels and objects posses an air envelope. This should be considered an Air system despite the vacuum." kinda thing.

I'm not sure if we need to be quite so worried about that. The references I made to Spelljammer, Shadowrun and Starshield don't give away anything substantial about those games or in any way discourage people from buying them. People refer to other people's works all the time and it's not a violation of copyright laws; it's called "fair use". Whether it's allowed under the OGL is another question. I looked at the license and the one clause I can see that *might* prohibit those references is this one:

7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as
expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark

However, I really doubt that it's going to be a problem. If somebody from WotC or WizKids gets on my back about it I can always revise it. Until that happens, I'm not going to worry about it.

3) A section of example Cosmos ideas (very short and simple) would be nice. This would be a good place for a non-spicific Spelljammer reference. It would also be a place for concepts like Either (SP?) where space travel isn't in a vacuum, but in a strange fluid. (old theory) etc. I also think it would be very helpful for both people trying to come up with a cosmos idea and people trying to see how to best fit their ideas into the system.

I'd originally planned to include something like that, but then I decided it would be better off in the campaign design chapter. However, perhaps I could add a list of non-standard design concepts such as ether-filled space, elemental bodies, and so on. I'd also like at some point to come up with a list of "special features" for worlds. The rules for planar descriptions that ax0n linked to might come in very handy for this.

Wyvern

 

[Wyvern]

Could you then cast a modified version of freedom of movement that would enable the entire ship to move as if it was designed to move underwater? Maybe as a meta- magic feat? (or am I too far off topic with this question?)

My personal inclination would be to handle this with Craft Wondrous Item. That is, I don't think that you should be able to cast freedom of movement on any old vessel, but creating a vessel that has a permanent freedom of movement effect built in (or has some magical device on board that grants the effect to the vessel) is a perfectly good idea.

This seems to be a little limiting to me. For magic, I can understand spells malfunctioning in different cosmos. However, unless the item itself contains magical properties, technology should only be difficult to use by someone not intimately familiar with it (i.e. in someone from a cosmos with a lower tech potential) if a magical power source is used, then obviously the device would be affected. Elemental-dependent power sources (solar power) would simply not function without the presence of the element, or might function at a slight disadvantage due to differences in the nature of similar elements between cosmoses.

Anyway, I understand that this rule is done as a play-balancing measure, but it seems somewhat unrealistic to me.

Actually, play-balance has nothing to do with it, and saying that it's unrealistic is missing the point. BlackJaw hit the nail pretty much on the head. It's designed to allow for radiation or whatever that inhibits technology, so much as it is to allow the creation of cosmoses that have fundamentally different physical laws from ours.

For example, some people keep gunpowder out of their fantasy campaigns by saying that it simply doesn't work. The tech potential rule allows for cosmoses where that holds true. The more complex a device (or the manufacturing process used to make it) is, the higher the tech potential needed for its creation. Living things are generally not affected by changes in tech potential because the lifeforce accomodates to the changes in the physical functioning of the body (this is an idea I stole from Starshield).

Of course, if you don't like the concept of varying physical laws, you can just keep all your cosmoses at tech potential 9. The rules are there for those who want them, and can be ignored by those who don't.

Wyvern