New Design: Wizards...

[WizarDru]

Besides, a "cleric of no god" could also describe some Buddhists.

More often than not, though, you could effectively cross out 'God' and write in 'Buddha' or 'Bodhisattva' and get the same net effect. Intoning a chant on behalf of Kwannon (or Quan Yin, if you prefer) or Amida Buddha or Acala (or Fudo Myou, if you prefer) instead of some other higher power yields the same net effect in many legends and myths. On the other hand, there were more than a few mountain ascetics who certainly fit the bill of 'cleric of no god', especially some Zen Buddhist sects. Taoism probably would qualify, as would lots of proponents of ancestor worship.

Wulf has a pretty good point about the domains and Corellian. It pretty much, to me, short changes any argument against abuse, unless you assume that some of the core entries in the PHB themselves are flawed, which I can't recall anyone ever claiming.

While I find the idea of "Bob, the guy who has a good outlook on life" is far more flavorless than "Bob, The Light of Pelor" or "Bob, who pays fealty to the spirits of his ancestors", I don't see any reason to force a player to a concept, necessarily, if he doesn't want one....unless it messes up some aspect of the DM's design.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Wulf has a pretty good point about the domains and Corellian. It pretty much, to me, short changes any argument against abuse, unless you assume that some of the core entries in the PHB themselves are flawed, which I can't recall anyone ever claiming.

Yeah, pretty much that.

 

[Rechan]

Yeah, pretty much that.

Hey, I'm not saying Corellan or Fharlanghn deserves to have the domain combos they do. I don't like the powerful domains paired up together, simple as that.

 

[Kesh]

Does this mean we can get away from the Cleric domains and back to what this thread is about: complaining about the wizard's implements?

 

[jasin]

Even if a player has a seven page backstory and his history is intimately tied to the setting, I'm still going to vehemently say no when he proposes that half-dragon gargoyle for a level 1 party.

That's not powergaming, that's simply going outside of parameters. Well outside.

 

[Just Another User]

Spellcasting requires gestures and spoken words. It's impossible to disquise it unless you've been an idiot and invested in the three or four feats nessesary to do it. Using a special power does not. It simply follows as natural that most educated people will know these things, as they are natural and normal parts of their world.

Much like anyone with education will know that normally a fireball encompases roughly a 20' radius, or that clerics can see into men's souls to know who is wicked and who is truly righteous.

Quote (and read) all the message, please

How could they know he is not a paladin but a fighter /cleric ? Just because Paladins have i.e. Lay-on-hands? But how could they know that paladins have lay-on-hands?, all they know is that there are some holy warriors that have this special ability to heal with the touch of they hands and someone that need gestures and words to do the same, but some Paladin variant don't have lay-on-hand, and it is probable that somewhere in some book there are ways to give clerics a lay-on-hand effect or something very similiar (even a metamagiked Silenced healing spell would do, in a pinch. So how they could know that he is not a paladin without seing his character sheet?

 

[Merlion]

Isn't that what ability increases and feats are for? Basically if you spent your adventuring time honing your reflexes and getting better at dodging things...then you should raise your Dexterity, take Combat Reflexes, Dodge, etc. Just because a characters a fighter doesn't mean he should automatically get better at dodging blows than a person with higher natural talent.

Thats what a class-based defense bonus...an AC version of BAB, should be for.

 

[Merlion]

Unless that defense bonus per level stacks with armor bonus, it would make armor useless in the game, like in SWSE.
.

Thats one of many reasons why armor should be expressed as DR, not make you harder to "hit"

 

[Merlion]

For the surreptitious caster, it really depends on how effective "still effective" is, doesn't it?

From what they've said so far, it looks like spells cast without these objects will be exactly as effective as normal, and spells cast with them will be more effective than normal.

 

[FireLance]

From what they've said so far, it looks like spells cast without these objects will be exactly as effective as normal, and spells cast with them will be more effective than normal.

Until, of course, spells cast with the implements become the new "normal".