New GSL Announcement

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Nlogue

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Scipio202 said:
I have a question for publishing company owners. Suppose the "one open license per company" clause of the GSL were such that if you created a wholly owned subsidiary company to technically be the licensee for the GSL you and your staff could still produce and sell (different) OGL and GSL products at the same time. Do any of you know how much of a business/legal difficulty such a procedure would be?


Opening Sinister Adventures was enough headache for me honestly. It might crush my soul to open a separate subsidiary JUST to put out 4E projects.

But then again, I am much more a creative guy than a bizness guy...not that people can't be both, I just ain't wired to deal with heaps of paperwork all the time. I'd rather spend my time writing and sheparding awesome products instead.

Edit: Not to mention the branding and marketing headaches of using two different entities and getting your customers excited about them. You might as well DOUBLE your advertising/marketing budget, and for a small but feisty studio like Sinister, this just isn't in the cards. We browncoats keep just enough fuel in our fireflies to hop round the verse, not take her over...we ain't Alliance afterall. ;)
 
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Orcus

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Urizen said:
Provided you ditch every other system deemed not healthy to WOTC's growth as a company, which, depending on the company, means you need to drop support for products fans know and love.

Not very "open" in my opinion...

In my view, the fact there are other terms doesnt have anything really to do with openness.

That isnt openness or non-openness. That is just LEVERAGE. Pure and simple. Frankly, I am a bit envious. Nice strong play. I dont like it cause I am on the receiving end of it, but lets call it what it is. Leverage. And well played leverage at that.

It might be my fault. I pointed the whole thing out to Rouse and he told me a light went on for him when he read what I said. I said the reason why people abandoned the d20 STL and its restrictions wasnt really because of the restrictions. It was because the d20 logo got watered down and lost its value. I said you let us have the D&D logo and you can put it just about any restriction and people will take it.

Oops. My bad.
 

Orcus

First Post
BSF said:
Well, almost no cost. By my understanding, Necormancer will no longer be able to sell versions of Tome of Horrors, Bard's Gate, etc for 3.x once you begin to release GSL material. You won't even have the choice to convert it from d20 to OGL, you won't be able to sell both.

Hopefully, you have most of your stock sold and clear of the warehouse. If you don't, then it might make sense to hold off on GSL products until you are clear.

But it also kills the PDF channel. The presumptively evergreen products that would allow people to still pick up old material for old games in perpetuity. That goes away now. .

BSF, this is an excellent observation and it is still an unanswered question in my mind. I dont know yet.

I know we cant make new OGL stuff. I also know we cant sell d20 logo stuff after 6 months. But you can just yank the logo off that stuff. That's not too hard.

The real question is the one you raise. Can I continue to sell old OGL backstock? Can I continue to sell old pdfs (if not d20'd)?

That is a HUGE question. I dotn have the answer to that. I have appealed to Wizards to answer those questions with a YES! (just make sure to take that d20 logo off).

Clark
 

Scott_Rouse

Explorer
Orcus said:
Morrus, how did you goof that one up? :) That was a "d'oh!" moment for you. Get in here with an "oops, spaced it" and all will be forgiven. I know you know the licenses better than that :)

Dont worry. I just goofed on something I posted. We all do it. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one.

Clark


Clark,

Check your email
 

Scott_Rouse

Explorer
I just want to let everyone know I have read the thread up to this point.

I understand people's concerns and I hope to add clarity to the questions on Monday.
 


Orcus said:
That isnt openness or non-openness. That is just LEVERAGE. Pure and simple. Frankly, I am a bit envious. Nice strong play. I dont like it cause I am on the receiving end of it, but lets call it what it is. Leverage. And well played leverage at that.
No, Clark. Calling it what it is is to call it a royalty-free trademark license.

Open versus closed is entirely about the terms involved in altering, revoking and sublicensing the license. An open license cannot be unilaterally altered or revoked. I'm sure the GSL will have provisions for modification and revocation both unilaterally on WotC's part.

5 years and a couple upper management replacements from now if someone decides "no more 3PPs". The GSL goes poof and you have nothing. OGL publishers are immune to that. That is the essential difference between open and closed licenses.
 

Orcus

First Post
amaril said:
I was just thinking about this, but specifically with respect to their own PDFs at RPGNow.com. It seems WotC's effort to push 3e out of the way to make room for 4e is an aggressive one. Will WotC cease to offer these PDFs after 4e is released? Will they be forced (or will they choose to) no longer offer those PDFs? I was hoping they'd discount the price of those after 4e is released, but this sounds like they might stop selling them altogether, which is unfortunate as I wanted to build an entire OEF library of PDF versions of my 3.5 books, especially Eberron books.

If I was them, I wouold still sell that stuff. And, frankly, that is a centerpiece of the petition I am composing to send to Scott and Linae.

Here is some of my thinking in rough form:

Basically, Wizards is asking us to do what they have done. They have "abandoned" 3E. They have suffered through the same cycle, to some degree, that we all have that its hard to sell stuff with 4E pending. They are in 100% for 4E. They want us to have to make that same choice.

But, as I expect they will permit themselves to sell off their own backstock and they will continue to sell pdfs of their old products, they should let us do the same (with the removal of the d20 logo with is being revoked).

When you really think about this poison pill, Wizards is asking us to do nothing more than they are doing themselves (yes, I know this isnt 100% true but it is a good model for thought)--dont support 3E anymore, with all the handwringing that comes with such a decison--and jump on 4E. Its faster, better, cooler, newer, and 200% improved! or whatever other market speak you use when you releaunch.

'Casue think about waht they are doing. They are relaunching/reboting the biggest industry IP. *THEY* cant have, internally, competing products for old editions within their own company. Why would they want those products externally?

That was a hard choice. Sales for 3E were no doubt declining, as were everyone's sales (please dont chime in and say yours werent unless you are Monte or Paizo, cause those are the only ones who can credibly claim it). But 3E ws not a failure as a game. Its a good game. A fun game. It was an advance over 1 and 2E in my view. Does it have issues? Sure. But there was nothign so broken about 4E that *mandated* a new edition. This is a business decision. So if they are going to leave behind their own product line, why shouldnt they expect their licensees to do the same?

So while it is fair to expect your licensees to make the same business decision you have had to make, as I mentioned, since Wizards wont be abandoning pdf and backlist sales of old products, please dont require us, your licenseees, to do more than you will be doing.

Our sales of old backlist and of pdf is no more competing with 4E than your own sale of backlist and pdfs of old products is hurting 4E. Heck, you sold tons of 1E and 2E pdfs during 3E. That didnt hurt 3E sales. And selling old 3E products from backlist wont hurt supporting 4E.

That is my thought and my plea to Wizards, anyway. Probably inartfully said. But I am still working on my open letter. So any feedback is welcome. :)

Clark
 

Orcus

First Post
Scott_Rouse said:
Clark,

Check your email

In a manly way, let me say--I love you. :)

(of course I'd rather say that to Linae)

I have to point out, this has been a hallmark of this process. Scott, Linae and Wizards definately listen to us. That is a credit to them.

Clark
 

Jack99

Adventurer
Scott_Rouse said:
I just want to let everyone know I have read the thread up to this point.

I understand people's concerns and I hope to add clarity to the questions on Monday.

Nice. I will cross my fingers for a resolution that most can at least accept, for the sake of the peace in the community.
 

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