New Introduction

[barsoomcore]

Here's the latest version of the Intro to the Cosmonomicon rules:

Chapter 1: Introduction
It is said that when man first looked to the sky and saw the birds soaring so freely there, he felt his first urge to fly. Through the history of mankind we have been driven to take to the sky and the heavens beyond.
The Cosmonomicon is intended to allow your characters to do just that. These rules provide a simple, easy to use method for conducting aerospatial movement and combat in the d20 system. They can be used to allow characters to fly on magic carpets, giant birds, fighter jets or spaceships, all the while making use of core d20 rules and remaining as flexible as possible.

Basics
There are some basic terms used in these rules. The first, and most important, term is the Vessel. A Vessel is any flying craft or creature with controlled movements. A Pilot is a passenger who controls a vessel's movements. Under normal conditions, a Pilot can control a vessel without needing to make any special effort, using the Steer A Vessel action. Steering a vessel is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.
Difficult maneuvers (known as Stunts) may require the Pilot to make a Piloting skill check. A pilot may attempt one Stunt for every steer a vessel action taken. The Piloting skill is detailed below.

New Skill: Piloting (varies, trained only):
This skill is used to direct the movements of any vessel that is not self-controlled. The key ability for Piloting is either Dexterity or Wisdom and varies according to the vessel type involved. Many vessels require experience and good judgment to pilot more than quick reflexes; when flying these vessels you should use Wis as the key ability for Pilot checks rather than Dex. As a general rule, larger vessels are more likely to fit into this category.
Vehicles are divided into different categories, each of which requires a different Simple Control Proficiency to operate (see the description of the Simple Control Proficiency feat for more details).
Check: If you take a steer a vessel action, you can make a Piloting skill check to attempt a Stunt. You may also use your Piloting check when attempting to avoid danger. The DCs for Stunts and dangerous situations are described in the sections below.

Vessel Movement
All vessels have a Speed quality, just like creatures do. Unlike creatures, however, a vessel cannot run. Nor can a vessel take a double move action. A vessel's Speed represents the maximum distance the vessel can travel in one round. Note that a pilot may take a double move action in order to use the Steer a Vessel action twice in one round, but this does not allow the vessel to make a double move. It instead allows the pilot to attempt two Stunts in one round, instead of the usual one.
Also unique to vessels is the concept of facing. A vessel can only travel in one direction unless it makes a turn. Vessels are restricted as to how much they can turn in one round by their Manuverability Rating. These ratings are detailed in the chart below:

<<insert Manuverability chart>>

Vessel Sizes:
Because vessels are typically so much larger than creatures, the Cosmonomicon uses a variation on the standard d20 creature size scale. Vessel sizes are described with the same modifiers as creature sizes, except that the sizes are all offset by four. That is, Fine vessels are the same size as Medium creatures, and Medium vessels are the same size as Colossal creatures. The modifiers associated with the sizes are the same, and have been extended for the new sizes. These sizes are detailed in the chart below:

<<insert Size chart>>


...any thoughts?

 

[barsoomcore]

Just as a comment, my rationale here is to provide just enough of a skeleton that a gung-ho DM could read nothing more than this and start running aerial combat. Sure, they'd have to make up DCs and Stunts and stuff, but the basics are all there -- the Manuverability ratings, the Sizes and the concept of Steer a Vessel vs. Piloting skill checks.

So if a DM is like me and hates reading long detailed rules descriptions, here's a quick-n-dirty capsule summary. Then if I get into trouble, I start leafing through the dull bits.

 

[BlackJaw]

Very well done. Very very very well done.

We might want to include the scale and 45 degree turn info in there, but as it stands now, that makes a great easy intro the basics. It leaves all the information need to run a dual between a pair of characters with flying spells on them etc.

 

[barsoomcore]

I added a bit on the grid scale to come after the Size table, but I'm not sure what you mean about the "45 degree turn info".

Here's something I want to create and add to all this:

Chase rules. One thing d20 doesn't currently have is a good set of chase rules, and it strikes me that a vehicle ruleset (like Cosmonomicon) is the natural place to put those.

My idea is to develop something along the lines of what the James Bond roleplaying game used -- opponents bid on maneuvers of ever-increasing DCs, so if you're really desperate you can go first, but your chance of succeeding gets lower and lower. And the more desperate a maneuver you pull off, the more difficult it is for someone to follow you.

Anyway, I'll try and put something together as soon as I can and try and get the rest of this material licked into shape.

 

[BlackJaw]

Well it does look like it's just the two of us on this project now, and I was thinking of cutting a lot of the stuff out of the version your currently editing. Wyvern did a the sections for setting use, etc and one of the things he did that I was never happy about, was bring a lot of less then useful PrCs into the setting. Even worse, those PrCs where from other people and sites and not his own work, or have all that much to do with flight.

Also, your reworking of the first chapter has given me insight into how to better arange the book to make more sense.

1 Intro (the basic rules as you have them)
2 Advanced Rules (stunts, your chase rules, altitude rules etc)
3 Monsters, Mounts, & Magic as Vessels (when you just want a paladin on a giant eagle to fight a dragon)
4 Ships and Crafts as Vessels (how to run a game with flying ships and players on those ships, etc... how all the players can take part in combat if they are all on the same ship, etc.)
5 Ship Construstion Guide (component lists, prices, tech & magic levels etc.)
6 Running an Airborn Game (advice or making a setting/world etc)

thankfully the content for chapters 1-4 is done, and 5 & 6 are around half way done.

Oh, and some nice chase rules would be great!

 

[BlackJaw]

Man i've been re-reading my work, and boy do I need a good editor.

I can see what you mean about a "pilot a vessel" action.

You might also want to make some similar changes. For example: the "downward spiral" vessel condition should realy have a cleaner title, like maybe "Plummeting" etc. I remember when I wrote that I had a hard time thinking of anything, and I just moved on. Plummetting works much better. (spiral doesn't have any barring on it, but that's all I could think of back then).

If you have any questions or comments on what I was trying to say in a particular section, just ask.

 

[Sidran]

You have a third worker bee if yah want him, I am busy with stuff for the Daemonforge at the moment but if you ask me to help out Ill make the time, I was here at the beginning when it first started and left for a long while.

Somethings that I think should be in the book

* A few non-setting specific PrC's, and One or Two Spelljammer PrC's that harken back to the older edition for the fans.

Perhaps

--Sky Tactician, a proverbial Napolean of the Skies.
--Windguard , Magican who calms, and controls the flow of the higher altitude winds. Perhaps with the ability to "Windtalk" a gale force blow as an attack against enemy ships.

Winged Brother, a PrC for Rangers, and Druids that gives them advantages with aerial creatures.

* A clearly defined Ship to Ship Combat Rules system seperated from the Adventuring Aboard, and Abroad chapter ( I think that it is this part that should descuss the Players combat on the same ship. And other things like boarding, ramming, and Raking (Broadsides)

* The Chapter Adventuring Aboard, and Abroad. which gives a description of how each class of adventurer ( Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, and Wizard) would come to adventuring aboard a Skyship (admitedly Paladins probably would file better under the Magical Mounts section) This could also be the place to add the Feats, Skills, and Equipment of Skyship Adventuring. It might make it more difficult but I would like to see some Cosmonomicon Specific weapons.
Such as the Cutlass, Belaying pin, and perhaps some rules for magical/ mechanical pistols.



Here is how I personally feel the book should be layed out




1. Introduction ---> as per what has already been stated above. with simple rules, and what the books about. Also what is needed to play the game (PHB, Dice, Penciils, Paper, you know D&D stuff but still almost all sourcebooks have this litte bit)

2. The Chapter Adventuring Aboard, and Abroad. ( Or what ever you want to name it.) which gives a description of how each class of adventurer ( Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, and Wizard) would come to adventuring aboard a Skyship. New Aerial Feats, Skills, and Equipment/ Weapons & Armor.

3. Monsters, Mounts, & Magic as Vessels (when you just want a paladin on a giant eagle to fight a dragon)

4. Ships and Crafts as Vessels (how to run a game with flying ships and players on those ships, etc... how all the players can take part in combat if they are all on the same ship, etc.)

5. Ship Construstion Guide (component lists, prices, tech & magic levels etc.)

6. Combat. Ship to Ship, Boarding, Using ship ordinance, Ramming, Raking. I think all of the advanced rules of Aerial combat should be put here, like the aerial manuevering, tricks, acrobatics, and such

7.Running an Airborn Game (advice or making a setting/world etc)
This should be were the few PrC's should be put.

8. Aerial Encounters. New aerial monsters, or Older Aerial Monsters revisited. ( Perhaps some Spelljammer Monsters, again for the Fans)

9. Glossary

10. Index of the Book

 

[BlackJaw]

Somethings that I think should be in the book

* A few non-setting specific PrC's, and One or Two Spelljammer PrC's that harken back to the older edition for the fans.

I would like to have some non-setting spicific PrC classes, but I want everything else "mostly" done before I attempt to setup a PrC using these rules, and I wouldn't want anything to spicific, spelljammer-ish or not.

* A clearly defined Ship to Ship Combat Rules system seperated from the Adventuring Aboard, and Abroad chapter ( I think that it is this part that should descuss the Players combat on the same ship. And other things like boarding, ramming, and Raking (Broadsides)

That's actualy what we already have written. I think most DMs can handle combat inside a ship... its more or less dungeon style adventure. when I said "how to run a game with flying ships and players on those ships" I ment how to make it fun for all the players of group if they are on the same ship durring vessel combat... the Star Trek version of combat where everyone on a vessel has a special role.

The rules I'm tyring to make would work for DragonStar or goblins in zeplins... and all the space inbetween.

* The Chapter Adventuring Aboard, and Abroad. which gives a description of how each class of adventurer ( Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, and Wizard) would come to adventuring aboard a Skyship (admitedly Paladins probably would file better under the Magical Mounts section) This could also be the place to add the Feats, Skills, and Equipment of Skyship Adventuring. It might make it more difficult but I would like to see some Cosmonomicon Specific weapons.
Such as the Cutlass, Belaying pin, and perhaps some rules for magical/ mechanical pistols.

This kind of information would go in the section on running a sky or space game and setting. rules for space suits, parachutes, worlds that rely on aircrafts, how sky pirates work, etc would all go there. Also possible adventure ideas and types, etc all go here too.

Because it is not a setting book I'm trying to avoid things like "new weapons." Firearms and odd weapons are actually in the DMG, seperated by simple time periods. I personaly am a fan of gnomes or dwarves using matchlock guns in settings, but then guns in D&D is a subject that gets all sorts of uglyness on messageboards.

As for spelljammer: yes I own the orginal boxed set, and yes I intend to make this system work for it. basicaly that will becovered by ship construction rules (what I am calling a "mage Helm" because spelljammer was published in a Dungeon and I don't want to directly step on toes) and an example setting for the latter section which will be spelljammer without using that word.

 

[barsoomcore]

Blackjaw, sounds like you and I are on the same page with this. Now try this on for size: the rules as they stand provide as much value for land-based vessel use as for aerial vessel use. Given that the rules really only "fake" the 3D aspect of aerospatial combat, these become a set of rules for all manner of vehicles or mounts.

Why shouldn't a horse be treated just like a vessel? Except for the fact that it's a creature and thus can take a double move or a run action, it's exactly like a vessel. I was just looking through Call of Cthulhu and there's a pic of some investigators firing out the back of a car as it tears along and I just thought of how perfectly these rules could cover that sort of situation (which currently d20 doesn't really have anything to say about).

So here's MY organizational idea (just to jump on the ol' bandwagon):

Vehicle Rules:
Introduction (as is)
Advanced Rules (Stunts, Chases, Altitude)
Combat
Skills
Feats
Vessels (details and construction guide, some examples)

We could include any number of sample settings, PrClasses, monsters, vessels yada yada yada. But I think the real value of this product is the ability it gives DMs to run complex vehicle-based encounters -- chases, ship-to-ship duels and careful maneuvers. Providing yet another batch of prestige classes doesn't seem like a very useful effort.

My points are:
1) This isn't just for aerospatial vessels and shouldn't be described as such -- rather, it's a general vehicle management system (boy do I need a better phrase).
2. Developing setting-specific stuff is of drastically LESS value than developing rules that apply to all settings.

 

[DPGDarrin]

As one of the sponsors of this project, I want to congratulate the dilligence and creativity of everyone involved in the project. We've been extremely busy with our own production, but all the while, we have been keeping an eye on things here, and we are extremely impressed. We originally intended for this to be a community effort, and it seems that the community has created a very well put-together set of rules.

So where to go from here?

Once you have a set of rule you are happy with, put it into draft form and email it to me at ddrader@darkportalgames.com. Myself and the rest of the team will put it through editing, resubmit it to you, the developers for final approval, and then we'll add art, an OGC section, and release it as a free PDF for the entire D20 community. In the meantime, if you feel you could use our support for any aspect of this project, just drop us a line.