New Jobs

[Velmont]

I agree with RA when he tells we should reward someone who has taken a profession, as it is the only skill that is useless in a game (except if you have a motivated DM to intriduce a sitation to use it). Rinaldo have maxed his Profession (Merchant). Up to now, I've been able to roll it once IG to negotiate the sells of some items after an adventure, but since I have better deal with my Trader PrC, I might never roll it ever.

Someone who has Profession (Sailor) might find a use on a sea adventure, but someone with Profession (Baker), I doubt he will ever use it, but at least, he might have something that doesn't make these skill points total waste.

When it's come to some jobswith skills like Diplomacy, Heal or Sleigth of Hand, they are too easy for player to gain as they are usefull skills. Having these skills high already hae tehre own reward. And why a Teacher wouldn't need Profession (Teacher) and a healer would not need Profession (Healer)?

Knowing how to heal (High heal skills) doesn't mean you are aware of all teh administrative rules of having a small hospital (you need permits, keep tracks of people who pays you, ect...)

I think all job would require at least a Profession (most job), Perform (Performer), Craft (Crafter) or Knowledge (Sage) skill, as they are the less active skill in a game, and having people with Profession having a better pay. Requesting a second skill (like appraise for merchant) make some sense too and would show teh difference between a normal merchant a good one.

 

[Solange]

Well, if you want to make profession a better source of income, why not just increase the pay of the Profession job to reward people for taking a skill that has little use to an adventurer? Something as simple as 30 silver and 3 silver per bonus would put it above almost anything except that performer suggestion someone made, and most other jobs should pay less in most cases, but pottentialy have some perks.

Also, unskilled Labor seems to pay way too much. It should be 35 copper, not 15 silver.

 

[Bront]

And Fighters....Ewww, remind me to mention how strongly I dislike that silly Perform(Gladiatorial) being separated out business

I don't care for it myself either, having played in a game where it could have been used. I've revisited enough rules at the moment to bring that one up though, as it seems minor.

I'd argue though that it couldn't be performed in Orussis anyway though.

 

[Bront]

Also, unskilled Labor seems to pay way too much. It should be 35 copper, not 15 silver.

That's a big difference...

 

[orsal]

Ido like the idea, however I have two comments: 1st, I'm not sure I like the permanency of it. So what happens when the character completes 20 weeks of perform? His special benefit is gone, and his gain lasts forever. I suggest adding this:

"For every four weeks not spent in this job, the character loses one of the above mentioned +1 bonuses, until the character has a +0 bonus granted by this job."

That means a single 5-month (RL months -- that's probably not even above average length) adventure completely annuls the entertainer's accrued influence. In other words, it really only has effect for Gather Information checks made at the start of an adventure, and will be based only on time spent as an entertainer since returning from the last adventure.

If you want to have it atrophy, I can see the reasoning behind that, but it should atrophy much more slowly than it accrues. Remember, in order to use the job system, you have to be between adventures, and it's expected that most PCs will spend more time on adventures than between. It doesn't seem right that a single adventure, which lasts 5 months RL and one day IC, will turn a local celebrity into a total unknown. (OK, a lot that has to do with time isn't ever going to make sense in LEW, but this makes even less sense than it needs to.)

2nd, if we give Perform a special, we should either nerf its income (compared to the other jobs), increase the other jobs' income, or come up with special perks for the other jobs.

That makes sense. Of course, we haven't yet agreed on an income scale for Perform.

I think, barring compelling reasons to change, we should taken the approved mechanics from the first job proposal as a given, and balance new jobs against them -- taking into account special rewards or the use of a skill that's already valuable, both of which would be reason to lower the pay scale of a new proposed job.

Speaking of which, if my character has Profession (bartender), does he roll for income once per RL week, or once every two RL weeks? Can he take 10?

He has to take 10 -- the proposals are all designed with no randomness at all. The original ones are based on the SRD formulas, taking 10, and divided by 2 (because we're using RL weeks and the SRD uses IC weeks). So yes, the formulas in our rules should be applied once every RL week between adventures.

I'd argue though that [Perform(gladiatorial)] couldn't be performed in Orussis anyway though.

I think that makes sense (although Rinaldo set up gladiatorial competitions as part of his festival, that's a one-shot thing). So we can write into the proposal "any Perform skill in the SRD".

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well, if you want to make profession a better source of income, why not just increase the pay of the Profession job to reward people for taking a skill that has little use to an adventurer? Something as simple as 30 silver and 3 silver per bonus would put it above almost anything except that performer suggestion someone made, and most other jobs should pay less in most cases, but pottentialy have some perks.

Also, unskilled Labor seems to pay way too much. It should be 35 copper, not 15 silver.

You could increase Profession or you could decrease the others. Both are the identical actions in a relative measure scale, and which to choose depends on how much we want the jobs to give

 

[Solange]

You could increase Profession or you could decrease the others. Both are the identical actions in a relative measure scale, and which to choose depends on how much we want the jobs to give

Way to not answer the question

 

[Rystil Arden]

Oh, I think you totally could do that, but I think orsal has a wise response to that which answers why I prefer the other way best:

I think, barring compelling reasons to change, we should taken the approved mechanics from the first job proposal as a given, and balance new jobs against them -- taking into account special rewards or the use of a skill that's already valuable, both of which would be reason to lower the pay scale of a new proposed job.

Your proposal of upping the old stuff and Professions is fair and balanced, I agree, as is lowering Perform, but lowering Perform follows orsal's rule of thumb.

 

[Bront]

Oh, I think you totally could do that, but I think orsal has a wise response to that which answers why I prefer the other way best:

Your proposal of upping the old stuff and Professions is fair and balanced, I agree, as is lowering Perform, but lowering Perform follows orsal's rule of thumb.

Well, here's the old stuff for reference.

APPRENTICE/ASSISTANT
You are someone to get the work done while the boss is busy saving the world.
Requirements: Must have a few of the requirements for the job OR Must be accepted by an existing character performing the job.
gp/week: One quarter of what you would gain on the job you are apprenticed for.
Special Payment: One quarterof what you would gain on the job you are apprenticed for.
Special: If you are leading the bussiness because the master is away adventuring or otherwise absent, you gain half the normal payment instead.

CRAFTSMAN
You are a craftsman, making a living on creating and selling items.
Requirements: At least 1 Craft skill at 4 ranks.
gp/week: 2.5 plus 1/4 the highest Craft skill modifier you have (ranks in Craft + Int modifier + other permanent bonuses).
Special Payment: You gain 1 Craft Point per week per rank in your highest Craft skill.
Special: You can craft, buy and sell items in a seperate thread while not adventuring. You must possess artisan tools. If you do not have one yet, you must set aside at least 1/4 of your income for a workshop, which costs 500 gp to buy.
You are assumed to have a selection of common goods (simple weapons, light armor, non-masterwork items) for sale. These cost neither money nor Craft Points to maintain. Other items need to be crafted or bought first.

LABORER (simple jobs with bad pay)
You are an unskilled laborer, hauling barrels or doing similar work for meager pay.
Requirements: None
gp/week: 1.5

MAGECRAFTER (someone creating magical items)
You are a spellcaster, making a living on creating and selling magic items.
Requirements: At least 2 Item Creation feats, spellcaster level 3+
gp/week: 3.125 times the number of Item Creation feats you have.
Special Payment: You gain 6.25 Craft Points per week per Item Creation feat you possess.
Special: You can craft, buy and sell magic items of the appropriate types in a seperate thread while not adventuring. If you do not have one yet, you must set aside at least 1/4 of your income for a workshop, which costs 500 gp to buy.
You are assumed to have a selection of minor magical itens (0 level potions or scrolls) for sale. These cost neither money nor Craft Points to maintain. Other items need to be crafted or bought first.

MERCHANT
You are a merchant, making a living on buying and selling items.
Requirements: Profession(Merchant) skills at 4 ranks and either Diplomacy or Appraise at 4 ranks.
gp/week: 2.5 plus 1/4 your Profession (Merchant) skill modifier (ranks in Craft + Wis modifier + other permanent bonuses).
Special Payment: You can add half your Trader PrC level to the gp/week.
Special: You can buy and sell items in a seperate thread while not adventuring. You must possess a merchant scale. If you do not have one yet, you must set aside at least 1/4 of your income for a shop, which costs 500 gp to buy.
You are assumed to have a selection of mundane goods of your choice of field (simple weapons, light armor, non-masterwork items) for sale. These cost neither money nor Craft Points to maintain. Other items need to be crafted or bought first.

Apprentice/assistant doesn't make much sense, unless it's to let players pick other players to make more than normal or they might be able to earn with a real job.

Laborers make too much, at least according to the SRD, unless that's the catch all job.

Merchant and Crafter make the same amount of money, though crafter has better benifits unless you're Rinaldo a Trader.

Magecrafter can make a lot of money once they get to 3rd level, but it seems fairly balanced. However, it's also highly useful. But, it encourages people to craft items, which I can't complain about.

So 30 silver and 3 silver per bonus for profession actualy seems pretty in line with the other jobs so far, as it has no bonuses, and has no other use. Beyond that, not sure what to do with perform. If you still want the quadratic scale, you can always make it 2 silvers, or even 1 silver. If you want another benifit, it should be a usable mechanical one.

 

[Velmont]

General Profession
Use of the Profession Skill
Requirements: 1 Rank in Profession.
Sp/week: 25 silver + 25 Copper/bonus in Profession.

Entertainer
Entertainers perform for money in many places around Orussis. Some performers are so good, they find personal sponsors.
Requirements: 4 Ranks of perform (Spread out among any number of Perform skills)
sp/week: 20 SP + 3 SP/Bonus in Perform.
Special: High perform checks might attract a personal sponsor who may pay better.

I'm curious to know why a high level performer would do more gold than a high level merchant or craftman. Don't forgot LEW is not the 20th century, where an artist can be known world wide and can earn money with there disc. A well paid performer will generally have a patron, who would be a noble or a guildmaster or a merchant house leader. So, a character with 20 rank in Perform would gain 80 silver, against 75 silvers for teh merchant. At that rank, I see the performer being the main artist of a royal court, paid by the king, where the merchant would be at the head of some merchant house... I would expect the later being more paid than the earlier (which can be the case if the merchant have the Trader PrC, he would gain 100 silver).

Ok, at rank 20, you are level 17 and a few silver doesn't make a big deal, but it is how I would see it.

In a few owrds, fluff side, it sounds a bit funny if you see it like I describe above. Crunch side, seems fine and balanced with the others.

And I don't like orsal idea of influence. A great craftman, merchant, guard would have as much influence than a performer. They might not reach the same people, but I feel that still coming from the view we have of performer in 20th century, where all the media help a lot the eprformers.