From C&C Monsters & Treasure: "Each classification of lycanthrope retains individual powers in human form, as listed below."
Actually, C&C is the simplest to implement this in.
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New player asking for some advice/help, please. 3e vs 4e. Which one is for me?
- Thread starter ZombieMaster
- Start date
From C&C Monsters & Treasure: "Each classification of lycanthrope retains individual powers in human form, as listed below."
Actually, C&C is the simplest to implement this in.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
You're saying you think there will be more ongoing 3rd party support for existing 3e D&D than there will be ongoing third party support for existing 4e D&D over the next several years?
If you are saying that...well, I think you are wrong.
As for speculation...it's pretty educated speculation I'd say. For example, when 3e came out, the rules to play monsters from the monster manual really didn't have much support until much later. Does that mean you would have suggested people play 2e because of that fact? Or would you have instead suggested that it's probably coming down the line so give 3e a try?
We know with near certainty that more books for 4e are coming out, and will continue to come out for the foreseeable future. We know several third parties are supporting it, and more say they plan to support it. Dismissing all those upcoming books as not relevant because it requires some level of speculation doesn't seem a particularly helpful approach for helping a newbie.
Brown Jenkin
First Post
I would agree with the poster who said that the best system is whatever version they played. I as well think the best version is the one I play.
For all the helpful suggestions, I am noticing that peoples recommendations are based on what they they are playing as well, with the pros and cons reflecting their personal playstyles.
So to go back to the other poster on his other point I would agree as well that you should try both and see which version you and your players prefer. 3.x vs 4e is basically about what playstyle you prefer and the best way to find out is to see for yourself.
For all the helpful suggestions, I am noticing that peoples recommendations are based on what they they are playing as well, with the pros and cons reflecting their personal playstyles.
So to go back to the other poster on his other point I would agree as well that you should try both and see which version you and your players prefer. 3.x vs 4e is basically about what playstyle you prefer and the best way to find out is to see for yourself.
Asmor
First Post
3rd edition is more simulationist. What that means is that the emphasis is less on balance than on trying to simulate verisimilitude and provide rules for everything.
4th edition is more gamist. It focuses more on balance and abstract rules which may not make as much "sense" but work well from the perspective of a game and keeping things flowing.
They each have their pros and cons. Personally, I can't stand 3rd edition anymore. There are plenty of other people who hate 4e.
So really, you just have to figure out which you hate and play the other.
4th edition is more gamist. It focuses more on balance and abstract rules which may not make as much "sense" but work well from the perspective of a game and keeping things flowing.
They each have their pros and cons. Personally, I can't stand 3rd edition anymore. There are plenty of other people who hate 4e.
So really, you just have to figure out which you hate and play the other.
Both 3.5 and 4E are great RPGs and will offer great roleplaying experiences if you play them with a group of friends and you are all focused on having a great time together.
That being said, they both take different paths to get you to that fun experience. Which system is best for you (and your group) will depend very much on the personality of the group.
Teh best advice that has been given in this thread is to look around for a group that doesn't mind you sitting in for a session or two to observe and play, so that you find out if the edition is for you.
However, and I think that this point is important above all else: The majority of the fun you will get from an RPG is directly derived from thegroup that you are playing with. If you are having a great time together, the game system you choose will have only a minimal effect on the amount of enjoyment.
That being said, they both take different paths to get you to that fun experience. Which system is best for you (and your group) will depend very much on the personality of the group.
Teh best advice that has been given in this thread is to look around for a group that doesn't mind you sitting in for a session or two to observe and play, so that you find out if the edition is for you.
However, and I think that this point is important above all else: The majority of the fun you will get from an RPG is directly derived from thegroup that you are playing with. If you are having a great time together, the game system you choose will have only a minimal effect on the amount of enjoyment.
Foundry of Decay
First Post
I'm going to answer the OP as neutrally as I can (I haven't read anyone elses comments, so forgive any repetition).
In terms of wide open flexibility, you might want to look into Pathfinder. You sound like you have done your research and are already leaning towards a more 3.x based system, and I can say that its definitely a lot of fun as long as you keep on the ball, which again, you sound like you are willing to do.
I haven't actually playtested Pathfinder myself, I have read through it however, and from what I understand its pretty backwards compatible with most of the 3.x system.
The only warnings I might give are that you could get caught up on the CR system of encounter building. It takes a little work, and you will definitely need to know what your player's characters are capable of and where their general power level sits at. The CR system is more a rough guideline than a definite 'budget' for encounter building, and things such as resistances, gear, and min/max point spreads might creep up. However, with a little practice and a few trial runs you should be fine and generally know where the characters are most comfortable.
I'd recommend stealing some things from 4e as well, however (That is, if you don't decide to go with 4th edition that is).
Minions! You can definitely use minions in 3e with a little tweaking. I'd recommend it if you plan on sending hordes of undead at the group. What better to strike fear into your PC's than to send 20 shambling undead screaming towards them.
I'd also recommend looking into skill challenges of some sort. They're wonky to read about in 4e, I'll grant you, but there are several threads and a ton of podcasts/editorials about the subject. Its not something that a game needs, but if you are looking for more rules-driven out of combat things to do, skill challenges are right up that alley.
Lastly, I'd recommend playing a one or two shot game of both systems. You can get Pathfinder for free (Its the beta I believe, but it's a full book download that includes some *really* good artwork). You can also download the Keep on the Shadowfell adventure, the quick start rules, as well as the demo of the 4e character builder that lets you make PC's of up to 3rd level (Which is perfect for the Shadowfell module).
Its definitely a touchy subject to some, but there's lots of choice out there. Don't let anyone get you down about what you ultimately choose to play. If you and your group is having fun, nobody can argue that you are 'doing it wrong'.
In terms of wide open flexibility, you might want to look into Pathfinder. You sound like you have done your research and are already leaning towards a more 3.x based system, and I can say that its definitely a lot of fun as long as you keep on the ball, which again, you sound like you are willing to do.
I haven't actually playtested Pathfinder myself, I have read through it however, and from what I understand its pretty backwards compatible with most of the 3.x system.
The only warnings I might give are that you could get caught up on the CR system of encounter building. It takes a little work, and you will definitely need to know what your player's characters are capable of and where their general power level sits at. The CR system is more a rough guideline than a definite 'budget' for encounter building, and things such as resistances, gear, and min/max point spreads might creep up. However, with a little practice and a few trial runs you should be fine and generally know where the characters are most comfortable.
I'd recommend stealing some things from 4e as well, however (That is, if you don't decide to go with 4th edition that is).
Minions! You can definitely use minions in 3e with a little tweaking. I'd recommend it if you plan on sending hordes of undead at the group. What better to strike fear into your PC's than to send 20 shambling undead screaming towards them.
I'd also recommend looking into skill challenges of some sort. They're wonky to read about in 4e, I'll grant you, but there are several threads and a ton of podcasts/editorials about the subject. Its not something that a game needs, but if you are looking for more rules-driven out of combat things to do, skill challenges are right up that alley.
Lastly, I'd recommend playing a one or two shot game of both systems. You can get Pathfinder for free (Its the beta I believe, but it's a full book download that includes some *really* good artwork). You can also download the Keep on the Shadowfell adventure, the quick start rules, as well as the demo of the 4e character builder that lets you make PC's of up to 3rd level (Which is perfect for the Shadowfell module).
Its definitely a touchy subject to some, but there's lots of choice out there. Don't let anyone get you down about what you ultimately choose to play. If you and your group is having fun, nobody can argue that you are 'doing it wrong'.
Victim
First Post
There's also The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org for getting 3.5 rules for free.
pawsplay
Hero
If I were forced to play in a 4e game, I would rather do it without minions and skill challenges than with. Someone here described minions as "strange visitors from another game system" and I am inclined to agree. In D&d, if something is supposed to die in one or two hits, that means it has low hit dice.
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