New Thief For The party - Cleric Of Norberger

[UHF]

I was thinking of running a thief, but really it would be a Cleric of Norberger.

Human... Biggest Stat Charisma, next two, Wisdom, and Dexterity, intelligence if I dump stat strength.

The idea is to deck him out as a thief, possibly with a buckler. He'd perhaps cover himself with Pharisma paraphernalia, in case anyone asks too many questions. "I'm a member of an Ulfen Sect of Pharisma that believes that extending your suffering I ensure you a better place in the afterlife.

So, you can see where I'm going with this. Channel Smite is like backstab. Selective Channeling lets me lay waste to living things. Flexible Channeling if I want to be nice... (I wouldn't actually do that... just saying its possible.) Did you check out that Trickery Domain ability?

He'd probably take one level as a Rogue, then discover his true calling.



So the rub of it... Where can he hide his holy symbol and how. Clerics of Norberger are supposed to hide their nature, especially to non-worshipers. I'm OK with him hanging back, for channeling death, and commanding undead. Hmm... Could I have my Norberger symbol on the back of a Pharisma symbol? Is a holy symbol needed to Channel Smite?

 

[UHF]

Thinking a bit more... This design gets a bit stressed trying to be too much. Charisma, Wisdom, and Dexterity. He would kinda suck all the way around.

So I'm think that perhaps Dexterity first, with Wisdom Second, and Charisma third would work better.

Channeling damage outside of a Channel Smite would not likely happen. (And I'm not liking that idea. I wanted to lay waste occasionally.)



This leaves me to also question the character design. Anyone else have any thoughts. Has anyone else tried to slip an evil cleric into a party?

Perhaps a Cleric of Pharisma (or false cleric...) with Charisma\Wisdom Focus. With Flexible Selective Channeling, he could weaken\eliminate most opposition.

 

[Herobizkit]

If you want to build a Cleric as a Rogue...

Personally, I'd do an Oracle (Dark Tapestry) or Inquisitor if you're looking for Clerical healing and magic combined with some actual Rogue abilities.

Also note that you can be True Neutral so that you don't ping as Evil.

Clerical Domains are no-brainers... Knowledge and Trickery. The issue is the amount of skill points you start with -- so I would (and always have) opt for the Cloistered Cleric variant to get more (4 + Int) skill points to start. You won't get as many weapons to choose from, so you need to adjust by taking relevant Feats and Traits.

S'all I got for now.

 

[UHF]

If you want to build a Cleric as a Rogue...

Personally, I'd do an Oracle (Dark Tapestry) or Inquisitor if you're looking for Clerical healing and magic combined with some actual Rogue abilities.

Also note that you can be True Neutral so that you don't ping as Evil.

Clerical Domains are no-brainers... Knowledge and Trickery. The issue is the amount of skill points you start with -- so I would (and always have) opt for the Cloistered Cleric variant to get more (4 + Int) skill points to start. You won't get as many weapons to choose from, so you need to adjust by taking relevant Feats and Traits.

S'all I got for now.

Thanks... I hadn't thought of either Oracle or Inquisitor, but they definitely have an appeal.

Umm... I'm really just interested in the Channeling of clerics. There is definitely something fun about melting the enemy, preferably on mass.

As for limited weapon lists... you get your god's favored weapon and anything racial. So... an Elven Cleric of Calistra gets Whip and Elven Curve Blade.


Norgorber is definitely Evil... but with the short sword, any race could pass as a thief with a little effort.


Except for the channeling... How can I hide his holy symbol? I want to keep it a secret within the party.

 

[Systole]

I had a player try the Dark Tapestry Oracle pretending to be rogue.

In short: interesting concept, but doesn't work too well in practice. Inquisitor pretending to be rogue might work out better, butI suspect it's still trying to hard to be too many different things.

 

[UHF]

I was thinking about this a tad more...

Dhampyr (Bestiary 2) Cleric of Norgorber (Trickery and Knowledge)... Stat bonuses work well.. skills not so much (Cloistered Cleric is tempting). Negative Energy Affinity heals him when he Channels, like he's sucking the life out of the living. (That's kind of cool from an RP aspect.)

Evil Clerics can't channel harm against Undead... but perhaps commanding them would be fun. (Really run! Need something to tromp up ahead and set off traps?) This is hard to explain... and even better for Role Playing.



Hallfling also works, Stats are similar, the benefits to Stealth, and (in a party) pretending to be a rogue easily fits. Perhaps following Calistra would be better in this case. This would be more flexible to play.. i.e. Could Channel positive or negative.


The sticking point with Channeling is... "A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability." Norborger clerics must keep their identities secret. Can this be done? Perhaps if my cleric took a step back while the others got into the fight, and let loose a wave of evil? Can I present a holy symbol that is covered up? i.e. Cover Norborger's mask with a Pharisma cloth?

A two sided symbol might work, or one that has a hidden symbol inside. I can expose the real one, then shift it back back to the fake later on.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

As far as ideas go for hiding your holy symbol, how about a specially commissioned weapon where the holy symbol is in the pommel of the weapon that you are holding. It then looks like the weapon is what is magical, the holy symbol is presented, and it is still hidden in plain sight.

Another option is to have it sewn, engraved, painted on, or somehow otherwise attached to something else you are wearing. Perhaps have symbols to all deities sewn in your cloak, tabard, or jerkin and the real one activates when you are in combat thereby it is also hidden in plain sight.

How about a necklace of charms with your holy symbol being one of them, the rest are a bunch of rubbish and runes.

That's how I'd do it, somehow make it hidden in plain sight, which would definitely keep with being a thief and being sneaky.

 

[UHF]

As far as ideas go for hiding your holy symbol, how about a specially commissioned weapon where the holy symbol is in the pommel of the weapon that you are holding. It then looks like the weapon is what is magical, the holy symbol is presented, and it is still hidden in plain sight.

Another option is to have it sewn, engraved, painted on, or somehow otherwise attached to something else you are wearing. Perhaps have symbols to all deities sewn in your cloak, tabard, or jerkin and the real one activates when you are in combat thereby it is also hidden in plain sight.

How about a necklace of charms with your holy symbol being one of them, the rest are a bunch of rubbish and runes.

That's how I'd do it, somehow make it hidden in plain sight, which would definitely keep with being a thief and being sneaky.

Hey, thanks.

Hmmm... I like the sword idea. I was thinking of getting a Consecrated Sword for Pharisma...

But I could go Norgorber so of course it would be hidden... and of course it would be covered in Pharisma or Calistra symbols.

(You can toss half a smite into a consecrated sword.)

Neckless works too. I like that a lot. Hell... just put one symbol for every God on it. Then cover yourself with stuff representing one other God.

Can I get away with putting the holy symbol inside my cloak? (I suppose that really violates the spirit of Channel...)

 

[Herobizkit]

I read a few different write-ups about Norborgor, and didn't get the impression that followers needed to remain hidden... but they do hide in plain sight.

Worshipers of Norgorber are considered cultists by nearly all inhabitants of the Inner Sea. The cult is forbidden in nearly every nation except Absalom, where it is tolerated.

There are cults dedicated to Norgorber in Galt, Nex, Osirion, The River Kingdoms, The Shackles, Taldor, and Varisia.

So if you're in that Nation, no big. In fact, if you are in said nation...

[Norborgor's] followers wear masks to identify themselves, and as a symbol of their devotion to the god. Some worshippers wear different masks in order to signify different emotions or signals. The masks themselves are often elaborate, with hinged jaws and coloured lenses.

Now, regarding Clerics:

A cleric’s alignment must be within one step of her deity’s, along either the law/chaos axis or the good/evil axis.

And Norborgor is Neutral Evil. So your character can easily be True Neutral.

As for your Holy Symbol... see if your DM would be willing to make the symbol into an onyx ring. You could then brandish your ring at creatures and make it look like you're casting.

 

[UHF]

Herobizkit: I got this from the 'Faiths Of Corruption'.
"A faith in Norgorber is necessarily a private one. Because you protect your identity, you do not show off your faith."

In my case, this guy will be around Good Folk. The less they know, the better off he'll be.

Anyways, here's a rough in;

It seems pretty obvious to me that he'll have a rough first few levels, as well as being kind of lack luster in performance. He really needs to use his spells to get an edge.

=========================================================
HYVARNION IANTO CR 3
Male Dhampir Cleric (Cloistered Cleric) 4
NE Medium Humanoid (Dhampir)
Init +3; Senses Darkvision (60 feet), Low-Light Vision; Perception +8
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 14. . (+4 armor, +3 Dex)
hp 23 (4d8-4)
Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +6
Defensive Abilities Negative Energy Affinity; Resist Undead Resistance
Weakness Light Sensitivity
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee +1 Shortsword +7 (1d6+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +6 (1d3/20/x2)
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Undead (3/day)
Cleric (Cloistered Cleric) Spells Known (CL 4, 3 melee touch, 6 ranged touch):
2 (2/day) Mirror Image (DC 14), Silence (DC 14), Hold Person (DC 14)
1 (3/day) Shield of Faith (DC 13), Shield of Faith (DC 13), Comprehend Languages (DC 13), Command (DC 13)
0 (at will) Light, Detect Magic, Enhanced Diplomacy
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 8, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 16
Base Atk +3; CMB +3; CMD 16
Feats Channel Smite, Scribe Scroll, Weapon Finesse
Traits Armor Expert, Vagabond Child (urban): Disable Device
Skills Appraise +4, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +7, Disable Device +12, Disguise +9, Perception +8, Sense Motive +6, Spellcraft +4, Stealth +10
Languages Common
SQ Aura (Ex), Breadth of Knowledge +2, Channel Negative Energy 2d6 (6/day) (DC 15) (Su), Cleric (Cloistered Cleric) Domain: Deception, Resist Level Drain (Ex), Spontaneous Casting, Sudden Shift (5/day) (Su), Verbal Instruction (1 allies) (Ex), Well-Read (Ex)
Combat Gear +1 Shortsword, Mithral Chain Shirt; Other Gear Thieves' tools, masterwork
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Channel Negative Energy 2d6 (6/day) (DC 15) (Su) - 0/6
Detect Undead (3/day) (Sp) - 0/3
Sudden Shift (5/day) (Su) - 0/5
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Aura (Ex) The Cleric has an aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Breadth of Knowledge +2 Add + 2 to all knowledge skill checks.
Channel Negative Energy 2d6 (6/day) (DC 15) (Su) A good cleric can channel positive energy to heal the living and injure the undead; an evil cleric can channel negative energy to injure the living and heal the undead.
Channel Smite Channel energy can be delivered through a Smite attack.
Cleric (Cloistered Cleric) Domain: Deception Associated Domain: Trickery. Bluff, and Disguise, and Stealth are class skills.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Light Sensitivity (Ex) Dazzled as long as they remain in bright light.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Negative Energy Affinity (Ex) The creature is alive, but reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead - positive energy harms it, negative energy heals it.
Resist Level Drain (Ex) You take no penalties from energy draining effects, though you can still be killed if you accrue more negative levels than Hit Dice. After 24 hours, any negative levels you have gained are removed without any additional saving throws.
Spontaneous Casting The Cleric can convert stored spells into Cure or Inflict spells.
Sudden Shift (5/day) (Su) As an immediate action after being missed by a melee attack, teleport up to 10' away, within the reach of the attacker.
Undead Resistance +2 save vs. disease, mind affecting effects.
Verbal Instruction (1 allies) (Ex) Use aid another on one or more allies in 30 ft. Full rd if different tasks.
Well-Read (Ex) +2 to skills, CL checks, or saves if pertain to glyphs, symbols, or writings.

==========================================================