New Wiki Working Group

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Made more progress on the CS today: Fixed the recursive issue; #switch also doesn't work in VaultWiki so I added more templates for powers for colorization. You can see how its going [wiki]here[/wiki]
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(If you quote this link, you'll see one benefit of the wiki: Just using [wiki] links instead of URLs. I.e., to get to Tondrek, you just do [wiki=LEB:PC:Tondrek (stonegod)]here[/wiki] in any normal forum or wiki post.)
 

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stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Okay, just ran into a major snag in the new wiki that prevents it being used exactly the way we have been doing.

VaultWiki does not have the extension that some MediaWiki's do that allow it to do math in templates. In other words, there is no way to automatic math checking (i.e., adding the various mod values for defense) without some seriously tricky recursive template execution that I haven't looked into. CES doesn't seem to have an extension to support math expressions either.

So, there a few things I need judges (both from L4W and LEB, as we are using the same sections so far) to ponder. I see a few ways forward:
  • Junk the ENWorld Wiki and move it offsite.
  • Modify the Math section by:
    • Requiring the numbers to be provided by the authors (no auto-calc)
    • Junk the section as given, and just request a CB summary
    • Junk the section entirely

My thoughts: I think we should just junk the section and request a Character Builder summary if the user can provide one. Why?
- The CB can check much of the math for us
- Its very labor intensive to fill this out every time, especially if there is a tool that does it. Removing this barrier will make character writing up easier.
- I believe many judges check by putting things into the CB anyway

Of course, there are some weaknesses with this approach:
- Not all of our users use the CB (e.g., DDI is required for level 4+)
- The CB does have some bugs
- The CB will not capture some of L4W/LEB's differences from cannon (oversize weapon creatures)
- I could be wrong on how much the judges are using the CB for checking

In any case, I am a strong opponent of moving the wiki off-site. I've stated this many times. While I think we need a way of doing math checking, I don't think the wiki's lack of doing that for us is the straw that will break the camel's back.

So, thoughts?
 
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renau1g

First Post
As my two cents, I use the CB for character checking, but I agree with sg that maybe an off-site location is the way to go. Is it possible to export all the current wiki pages to a new site, it'd have to use MediaWiki too right? I'm not good with 'puters, I'm a numbers guy.
 

Fragsie

Explorer
I agree, I'm not a judge or anything, but I think we'd run into too many problems if we just posted straight from CB. There are a fair few powers out there that are modded from the official as well as other house rules (like the oversize thing). And it would kinda restrict how playable our settings are for people without DDI subscriptions. If we go offsite there is a lot less work for people to do (hoping that we can just port templates over) too.
 

Dunamin

First Post
Thanks for bringing this issue up, stonegod.

Personally, I really like the CB and it makes life much easier for me regarding character generation and checking. Isn't there a free 3-level version, available? If so, that would give non-DDI checkers the tool they need, and higher level submissions may just be checked by comparing to changes since the last approved version. Or perhaps it would be too cumbersome, I don't know.

If we were to go offsite for sheets, does anyone have some specific suggestions in mind? I think the main priorities here would be stability and speed, in that order.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
As my two cents, I use the CB for character checking, but I agree with sg that maybe an off-site location is the way to go. Is it possible to export all the current wiki pages to a new site, it'd have to use MediaWiki too right? I'm not good with 'puters, I'm a numbers guy.
I want to clarify because of a typo: I am not in favor of moving the wiki off-site. I think we should keep everything here for ease and if EN goes down, having the stuff off-site isn't a boon anyway.

Yes, any offsite wiki (to be easiest) would (1) need to support MediaWiki and (2) have the expression calculation extension. Not sure if (2) is universal.

And, to clarify one other point: The CB part would be for the math section: Folks would still need to fill in a Statblock that summarizes the powers (the top section of the L4W/LEB sheets).
 



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