D&D (2024) New Wild Shape

[James Gasik]

Special senses. The templates cover darkvision and keen senses, but there are also a couple more specialised ones like blindsight for bats. Not sure offhand if there are any beasts with tremorsense.

For me, having some decent base statblocks and then being able to add one, maybe two special features to it to represent my specific animal choice would go a long way towards being more like the druid's traditional versatility.

Giant Centipedes and Flying Snakes; I just fought some recently.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The problem is that while I agree the overly high HP buffer gain at low levels are anoying, that pales compared to the issue with the entire feature rellying on a growing pool of material designed, balanced and intended for DMs. Just capping of hp like you suggest is easy. It is solving getting rid of the MM dependency that is hard.

Not really, they've basically solved that issue. The Templates work. They aren't 100% perfect, but they work really well as a baseline concept. Now we just have to make them worth turning into

 

[Chaosmancer]

And this is why keeping the Druid wildshape as currently designed in 5e is probably the best solution. Too many players playing the class too many different ways (all valid) for any kind of template structure to work. I wrote this for how I've seen a Druid played, but that doesn't begin to cover the wealth of options for the class. Perhaps the only thing really needed is @Clint_L 's suggestion regarding lowering the CR of Moon Druids in early levels (if people are truly concerned about Druid being OP at that point).

I don't know if it is the best solution. It is an easy solution, sure, but the best? I think it is possible to come up with better.

 

[Maxperson]

Exactly. The druid going into dangerous territory as a spider or a rat has created so many memorable moments in campaigns over the years. I'd hate to lose that for the sake of simplicity.

Yes, but think of the stories you can make at 11th level when your tiny spider lifts up and carries a 300 pound statue back to the group.

 

[Maxperson]

Is it me, or does it seem like one of the designers plays WoW and likes the new evokers?

Healing Blossoms. As a Magic action, you channel healing energy that appears as blooming flowers. Choose a point within 30 feet of yourself, and spectral flowers appear for a moment in a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on that point.

 

[Bill Zebub]

The idea is solid, but the execution needs work..

This. This is where I think it is worth focusing efforts/feedback. There is just no way WotC is going to ditch this and keep things the way they are. So if it’s cathartic for some people to rant and vent, go for it. But the train has left the station.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Would it really be that many features?
I'm thinking there's only 12 or so. That could be only 3 features over 4 sub-class levels.

Let's brainstorm a list of animal features a druid may want.
-size
-movement
-reach
-grapple/shove
-constrict
-poison
-shell (AC)
-web
-swallow
-elemental damage
-elemental resistance

Thats 11. Is that everything?

Well, first off, we need to define the terms. Sure, 12 features isn't very much. 12 unique statblocks? That's a significantly different situation. And the post I was responding to was advocating seperate statblocks. So, your #1 there "size" isn't one thing, it is three to five things, because you would need a tiny statblock, a small statbock, a medium statblock, a large statbock and a huge statblock.

If I was to make a full list, I would also include "charge attacks" this can include things like the Elk's ram, the panther's pounce, and the warhorse's trample. I know trample was brought up at least. I'm guessing movement i meant to cover climb, burrow, swim and flight.

So, in terms of a full list of features, I think we'd find that breaking your categories up, we would end up with a list of near 20 mix and match parts, which feels like far too much.

 

[mellored]

Special senses. The templates cover darkvision and keen senses, but there are also a couple more specialised ones like blindsight for bats. Not sure offhand if there are any beasts with tremorsense.

I could see a mole having tremorsense.

A lot of Druids go wolf so they can trip.

Trip is part of shove, at least in this packet.

12 unique statblocks?

No. 12 features that can be added to the base stat block.

Like how they add tiny, elemental resistance, and elemental damage.

If I was to make a full list, I would also include "charge attacks"

Yup.

warhorse's trample.

Fire elemental has a similar thing.

So, in terms of a full list of features, I think we'd find that breaking your categories up, we would end up with a list of near 20 mix and match parts, which feels like far too much.

How many parts do you think would be enough?
If we took the most popular 12 or so?

 

[Enrahim2]

And this is why keeping the Druid wildshape as currently designed in 5e is probably the best solution. Too many players playing the class too many different ways (all valid) for any kind of template structure to work. I wrote this for how I've seen a Druid played, but that doesn't begin to cover the wealth of options for the class. Perhaps the only thing really needed is @Clint_L 's suggestion regarding lowering the CR of Moon Druids in early levels (if people are truly concerned about Druid being OP at that point).

This is why I think expandability by third parties might be the key. Put some templates covering the main roles like the ones you suggest in the phb, but provide guidance in the dmg for how to add new - which matches more closely those "chose traits" ideas that has been floating around here. This way third parties can concentrate of filling any holes that are found while soely focusing on how this works as a wild shape option.

So for instance you start level 1 with access to "simple shape" templates. At level 5 you unlock access to "utility shapes" and at 9 you unlock "advanced shapes". Moon druid gets combat boosts to any shape. If there is a worry that this causes too many options in game, you might consider limiting the number of known shapes (one per 2 levels?), reflecting the druid getting attuned to more aspects of the nature.

This way we still can get versatility trough added content, but it is not entangled with monster design sensibilities. A dire cameleon might for instance be low CR due to limited combat ability against anything but the tiny creatures it can swollow whole with it's ranged sticky tounge attack. But it could be insanely powerfull for an utility focused druid. With this change the monster designer can happily release their vision, and if this causes a demand on stealthy range draggers, someone else can do the work of seeing how to balance such in as an utility or advanced shape template.

 

[MarkB]

I'm guessing movement i meant to cover climb, burrow, swim and flight.

It should also cover specialised things like spider climb, glide, brachiate and leap.