Well, yeah. I did too. However, it took me about a _week_ to create a spellcasting
pc in the mid to high levels. Not really something I enjoyed doing.
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No Character Builder Update
- Thread starter Kzach
- Start date
pc in the mid to high levels. Not really something I enjoyed doing.
Mapache
Explorer
For me, the looking up is the entire process of building the character. That's the value the character builder brings to the table, not the fact that is automatically does some piddly addition. I have a 6th-level fighter. He already has options (race, class features, powers or feats) from Players Handbook, Players Handbook 2, Players Handbook 3, Martial Power, Martial Power 2, Dark Sun Campaign Setting, Heroes of the Fallen Lands, and two issues of Dragon. His equipment adds in Adventurer's Vault 1 & 2. Trying to sort through that pile of stuff without an automated search engine would be ludicrous. I could build a character with the online compendium and cut-and-paste; the CB just automates this process. I simply would not build a character by hand.
fanboy2000
Adventurer
1. Having a character builder is good.
2. Offline building doesn't bother me.
Here's the deal for me. If I'm playing a barbarian, then I'm fine only using the PHB 2 and Primal Power. If I'm missing a power or feat from Dragon, the miniatures, or some other odd source, I'm fine with that. I'm fine with a limited choice for equipment too. Why? I assume that, as the game progresses, I'll get equipment from the adventuring so I'm not stuck with what's available at character creation. Also, I assume that if there's something really good out there, I'll learn about it during the course of the campaign and can either take it when I level, or retrain.
The only time when I might want to evaluate every option is when I want to make an optimized character. But even then, I'd just go to the Character Optimization boards and look at the guide for my class and call it a day.
2. Offline building doesn't bother me.
Here's the deal for me. If I'm playing a barbarian, then I'm fine only using the PHB 2 and Primal Power. If I'm missing a power or feat from Dragon, the miniatures, or some other odd source, I'm fine with that. I'm fine with a limited choice for equipment too. Why? I assume that, as the game progresses, I'll get equipment from the adventuring so I'm not stuck with what's available at character creation. Also, I assume that if there's something really good out there, I'll learn about it during the course of the campaign and can either take it when I level, or retrain.
The only time when I might want to evaluate every option is when I want to make an optimized character. But even then, I'd just go to the Character Optimization boards and look at the guide for my class and call it a day.
Ludicrous? Not a word I'd use in this situation.
Then again, I've always been willing to do that kind of research for any given PC in any given RPG...it doesn't bug me at all.
Again, I concede that a computer driven search is faster, but the task itself is not intrinsically "ludicrous."
I totally understand what you mean.
Depending on the individual, the automation that the CB provides does not necessarily inflate the burden of pencil and paper generation nor do skilled 'pencil and paper'-capable builders necessarily imply that the CB is a needless tool.
The truth of one statement does not necessarily render the other fallacious.
I hear what's being said here but things have moved on in... Grimsby (Wah?)
I have (DM) two full time games and an on-and-off game.
Game 1 Round-the-table-swearing-and-drinking.
One player has PH1, none of the other players have any 'books', I think two of the players have DDI subscription- the players have been playing since the start of 2010, prior to that only one of them had ever played D&D (or any other RPG) previously. The youngest is 28 (I think) the oldest is 50+, as I say no books- never built a character other than on-line.
Game 2 Via Maptools, hoary-old skool RPGers from around the globe.
All players have minimum ten years or so experience with D&D and RPGs, most of them have the Players Handbook, one of them (Simon) has lots of other books (he DM/Plays in something like four games/week). All of the players have DM'ed or been players in other campaigns while our Maptools game has been ongoing. I'd say they own, even including Simon's collection, on avergae 2-3 hardback books each.
Game 3 The sons and daughters of Game 1
They have never seen a single book, that's not true, they've seen them- even looked at a few of the pictures, but they don't know the rules, haven't read them, and are not interested in doing so- average age of this group is however about 11. They don't read much however, that's not to say they're not bright kids- they don't interact with the world via written text that's all.
My point is tech rules, I wish it were otherwise, but here in the cutting edge silicon valley that is Grimsby, well none of my players have access to 'all' the books they need, mostly not even 'some' of the books they need. Most of my players have never read any of the books- most of my players don't want to read any of the books. And I want you to know that this has been the case since 1E, one of us had a box set- the other guys were players, I can remember back through 5-10 campaigns (each lasting a year or more), in which I (the DM) was the only guy to actually own one/any/some of the books.
Lastly, I don't own a mobile phone, I'm not sure what buttons to press on the DVD remote control, I only learnt how to copy and paste on a Mac (after owning one for eight years- for work) about a year ago (although I think I've forgotten again- Apple C & Apple V- is that it?).
And while I could make a PC without the CB, I would pay money- far more money than I am already, to avoid doing so. My players on the other hand wouldn't know where to start (90% of them), not that they own the books.
Welcome to Grimsby, the age of enlightenment starts here...
At times it makes me sad, I think Bill Hicks said it best-
"Whatchyer readin' for? Why don'tcher jus' flip on the tube?"
Books (and I have an MA in English, and rooms full of them) that's so last century...
Alas.
Cheers Goonalan.
I have (DM) two full time games and an on-and-off game.
Game 1 Round-the-table-swearing-and-drinking.
One player has PH1, none of the other players have any 'books', I think two of the players have DDI subscription- the players have been playing since the start of 2010, prior to that only one of them had ever played D&D (or any other RPG) previously. The youngest is 28 (I think) the oldest is 50+, as I say no books- never built a character other than on-line.
Game 2 Via Maptools, hoary-old skool RPGers from around the globe.
All players have minimum ten years or so experience with D&D and RPGs, most of them have the Players Handbook, one of them (Simon) has lots of other books (he DM/Plays in something like four games/week). All of the players have DM'ed or been players in other campaigns while our Maptools game has been ongoing. I'd say they own, even including Simon's collection, on avergae 2-3 hardback books each.
Game 3 The sons and daughters of Game 1
They have never seen a single book, that's not true, they've seen them- even looked at a few of the pictures, but they don't know the rules, haven't read them, and are not interested in doing so- average age of this group is however about 11. They don't read much however, that's not to say they're not bright kids- they don't interact with the world via written text that's all.
My point is tech rules, I wish it were otherwise, but here in the cutting edge silicon valley that is Grimsby, well none of my players have access to 'all' the books they need, mostly not even 'some' of the books they need. Most of my players have never read any of the books- most of my players don't want to read any of the books. And I want you to know that this has been the case since 1E, one of us had a box set- the other guys were players, I can remember back through 5-10 campaigns (each lasting a year or more), in which I (the DM) was the only guy to actually own one/any/some of the books.
Lastly, I don't own a mobile phone, I'm not sure what buttons to press on the DVD remote control, I only learnt how to copy and paste on a Mac (after owning one for eight years- for work) about a year ago (although I think I've forgotten again- Apple C & Apple V- is that it?).
And while I could make a PC without the CB, I would pay money- far more money than I am already, to avoid doing so. My players on the other hand wouldn't know where to start (90% of them), not that they own the books.
Welcome to Grimsby, the age of enlightenment starts here...
At times it makes me sad, I think Bill Hicks said it best-
"Whatchyer readin' for? Why don'tcher jus' flip on the tube?"
Books (and I have an MA in English, and rooms full of them) that's so last century...
Alas.
Cheers Goonalan.
Mapache
Explorer
For reference works, books are a terrible medium. You want random access, full search, and ubiquitous access to any reference work that might be useful. Electronic text is much, much better at this. The real world basically sucks as a place to store indices. Card catalogs were laborious to use compared to a database and offered less functionality because each index you wanted required duplicating the entire card catalog.
For books that you read front-to-back, such as fiction and essays, then paper books are great. They require no infrastructure to use, and carrying around the single one you're currently interested in is not a physical burden.
Zaran
Adventurer
I don't think the CB got an update. They just updated the Compendium.
