D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Remathilis]

So, no misty step for Astral Elves too?

See, there are lots of effects that as a spell is higher level then as a racial feature. Fly is a third level spell, but aarakorca get it at level 1. Water breathing is also 3rd, but tritons also start with it. Plenty of races get darkvision and energy resistance despite those effects being higher level than a cantrip. It's built into the racial power budget.

All of that to say darkvision isn't a cantrip effect.

 

[Yaarel]

See, there are lots of effects that as a spell is higher level then as a racial feature. Fly is a third level spell, but aarakorca get it at level 1. Water breathing is also 3rd, but tritons also start with it. Plenty of races get darkvision and energy resistance despite those effects being higher level than a cantrip. It's built into the racial power budget.

All of that to say darkvision isn't a cantrip effect.

Background wings, is a kind of flight. The Fly spell is telekinetic antigravitational flight. It is possible to distinguish these.

Low tier wings can be less effective, such as requiring an ACTION to move, lacking hover, and so on, to balance at low tier, while improving at higher tiers.

Darkvision is nearly worthless as a slot 2 spell. It needs rethinking. Likewise Water Breathing is nearly worthless as a slot 3 spell.

There is zero problem balancewise, when a level 1 character has Darkvision or Waterbreathing. The spell slots are wrong for the corresponding spells.

 

[tetrasodium]

the darkvision cantrip existing doesn't mean the elf doesn't have natural organic darkvision, it just means that there is a cantrip that can give darkvision, for the species like humans who don't get natural darkvision.

I think that the point might have been "I cast dark vision" rather than constantly crashing into "oh I have dark vision so don't need a torch FITEMEBRO"

 

[Remathilis]

Background wings, is a kind of flight. The Fly spell is telekinetic antigravitational flight. It is possible to distinguish these.

Low tier wings can be less effective, such as lacking hover and so on, to balance at low tier, while improving at higher tiers.

Darkvision is nearly worthless as a slot 2 spell. It needs rethinking. Likewise Water Breathing is nearly worthless as a slot 3 spell.

There is zero problem balancewise, when a level 1 character has Darkvision or Waterbreathing. The spell slots are wrong for the corresponding spells.

Hearing everyone who complains about how darkvision, flight and water breathing ruins the exploration pillar, I could argue they aren't high enough level.

 

[Yaarel]

Hearing everyone who complains about how darkvision, flight and water breathing ruins the exploration pillar, I could argue they aren't high enough level.

When making Darkvision a cantrip, there is a tradeoff. Yes, a Wizard or a Druid or other caster can prepare the cantrip. But there are many good cantrips and fear of missing out. When I pick cantrips there is always one or three cantrips I wish I had enough to include. Meanwhile, a player can trivially use a torch instead of wasting a cantrip. For players who care about Darkvision, for flavor reasons or for stealth, giving up a cantrip for it is fair.


Re exploration pillar. Adventures that rely on artificial restrictions are misguided in the first place. They lack verisimilitude. If a species genuinely features wings, why wouldnt they be able to use them during their background and at level 1? It is important to make certain concepts available from the start − as well as ensure these concepts balance well.

There is zero reason to prevent an underwater adventure at low levels. It is fun, and if everyone is a water species it happens anyway. There is no reason to gatekeep this.

Even an adventure to Sigil can be a low tier.

 

[Scribe]

I think that the point might have been "I cast dark vision" rather than constantly crashing into "oh I have dark vision so don't need a torch FITEMEBRO"

That's not my Quote, forum or formatting bug.

 

[Gammadoodler]

When making Darkvision a cantrip, there is a tradeoff. Yes, a Wizard or a Druid or other caster can prepare the cantrip. But there are many good cantrips and fear of missing out. When I pick cantrips there is always one or three cantrips I wish I had enough to include. Meanwhile, a player can trivially use a torch instead of wasting a cantrip. For players who care about Darkvision, for flavor reasons or for stealth, giving up a cantrip for it is fair.


Re exploration pillar. Adventures that rely on artificial restrictions are misguided in the first place. They lack verisimilitude. If a species genuinely features wings, why wouldnt they be able to use them during their background and at level 1? It is important to make certain concepts available from the start − as well as ensure these concepts balance well.

There is zero reason to prevent an underwater adventure at low levels. It is fun, and if everyone is a water species it happens anyway. There is no reason to gatekeep this.

Even an adventure to Sigil can be a low tier.

Enhh. For most any biological feature, from a verisimilitude perspective, it's fairly straightforward to say the feature matures with experience to unlock expanded capabilities over time.

 

[Yaarel]

The 2024 designers are ok with improving a subpar spell. However, they seem unwilling to change its slot.

What would it take for me to prepare and spend a slot 2 on a Darkvision spell?

Something like.


"
DARKVISION
Slot 2 Evocation

Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: 8 hours

You discern subtleties across the spectrum of energies. You and upto 10 willing allies can see normally in darkness, both magical and nonmagical, out to any range.


DARKSIGHT
Transmutation Cantrip

Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: Self
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 minute

Your eyes can see in total darkness. Within 60 feet, you can see in dim light as if in bright light, but in darkness as if in dim discerning only shades of gray.

"


With regard to the slot 2 Darkvision, this grants an entire party stealth capability for a mission. It also grants tactical advantage if spending additional slots for Darkness spells or other forms of magical darkness. This is valuable, and other players can appreciate this.

With regard to the Darksight cantrip, I am tempted to make it Concentration. But for now it is ok, and Concentration would interfere with Drow culture concepts.

 

[Minigiant]

Cantrips?

Gills is a ritual, friendos.

Some elves just made Gills permanent.

 

[Yaarel]

Cantrips?

Gills is a ritual, friendos.

Some elves just made Gills permanent.

Mythals are rituals.

But it is fine for level 1 characters to breathe water.

Water Breathing is situational and modest. It is either worthless, or if useful meh.