Songdragon
Explorer
I would like to re-vist the discussion on the Nobility domain's Leadership feat.
My character has recently reached 8th and now has access to the Nobility domain's 8th level power which would have been the Leadership feat. When I chose the Nobility domain I was aware of the change that LPF made to the domain but after some thought and discussion with my current GM, it was suggested I bring it up here.
For those who are not aware the current policy is below in a spoiler...
[sblock=the Nobility Domain] Cleric: The 'Leadership' and 'Nobility' domains replace the 'Leadership' feat at 8th level for the following ability:
When a cleric prepares his spells for the day, he may also choose to endow his companions with superior skill. For each 4 levels a cleric possesses, he may grant 1 companion a +2 morale bonus to all skill rolls linked to a chosen ability (Strength, Dexterity, etc.) for 24 hours. The chosen ability is selected by the cleric and need not be the same for all companions affected by this power, although once chosen it cannot be changed until the following day. The cleric cannot target himself with this power. At 20th level, the bonus increases to +4. [/sblock]
I realize that at the time this was changed (I cannot find the discussion of this change, so it was some time ago) that most characters were low-level and some of the current classes were not in the campaign, namely the Summoner. I am aware of some of the concerns that the Leadership feat would bring but at the same time would argue that some of the concerns currently exist.
One of the concerns is that it adds another character (as the Cohort from the Leadership would be) to be tracked and considered by the GM. I would say that this already exists in the game with a Summoner's Eidolon, Druid/Ranger/Clerics with the animal domains with an animal companion (especially as they are higher level), as well as Wizards with familiars (especially those who might take the Improved Familiar feat), as well as higher level characters summoning the high level creatures from various spells. While some of these examples are more powerful and are not permanent things, they are all present and add complexity for any GM running their adventure. I have heard that some characters' additional "helpers" are as formidable as a single classed character. (I heard that an Eidolon was out preforming or at the least keeping par with a fighter.) I would make the argument that there is not much difference between these 'helpers' and that of a cohort.
I am aware that most of my examples are class abilities so they are part of the class and not merely a feat a character chooses. Even though it is a weak argument it can be made that those choosing the Nobility domain, the 8th level ability to gain the feat Leadership, is also a class ability.
It was also brought to my attention that one of the issues of a cohort would be a cohort who was of a class that could also have their own 'helper' class ability. And no one wants a character of a class with a helper to have a cohort with a class with a helper. (I do not see anything wrong with it personally, but I can see how having four+ beings to keep track of for one player could be an issue.
I would suggest merely adjusting the feat so that a cohort has to choose a non-helper/companion option (of which there are many in Pathfinder). I would also add that a cohort cannot have a cohort.
My final argument, after searching through the ENWorld character creation page and the wikki itself, there is no restriction form character taking the Leadership feat (I actually thought there was and if I am mistaken, I do not actually see it listed).Which brings to mind the question, why the change to the Nobility domain power in the first place?
Thank you for your time and consideration on this matter.
~ Songdragon
My character has recently reached 8th and now has access to the Nobility domain's 8th level power which would have been the Leadership feat. When I chose the Nobility domain I was aware of the change that LPF made to the domain but after some thought and discussion with my current GM, it was suggested I bring it up here.
For those who are not aware the current policy is below in a spoiler...
[sblock=the Nobility Domain] Cleric: The 'Leadership' and 'Nobility' domains replace the 'Leadership' feat at 8th level for the following ability:
When a cleric prepares his spells for the day, he may also choose to endow his companions with superior skill. For each 4 levels a cleric possesses, he may grant 1 companion a +2 morale bonus to all skill rolls linked to a chosen ability (Strength, Dexterity, etc.) for 24 hours. The chosen ability is selected by the cleric and need not be the same for all companions affected by this power, although once chosen it cannot be changed until the following day. The cleric cannot target himself with this power. At 20th level, the bonus increases to +4. [/sblock]
I realize that at the time this was changed (I cannot find the discussion of this change, so it was some time ago) that most characters were low-level and some of the current classes were not in the campaign, namely the Summoner. I am aware of some of the concerns that the Leadership feat would bring but at the same time would argue that some of the concerns currently exist.
One of the concerns is that it adds another character (as the Cohort from the Leadership would be) to be tracked and considered by the GM. I would say that this already exists in the game with a Summoner's Eidolon, Druid/Ranger/Clerics with the animal domains with an animal companion (especially as they are higher level), as well as Wizards with familiars (especially those who might take the Improved Familiar feat), as well as higher level characters summoning the high level creatures from various spells. While some of these examples are more powerful and are not permanent things, they are all present and add complexity for any GM running their adventure. I have heard that some characters' additional "helpers" are as formidable as a single classed character. (I heard that an Eidolon was out preforming or at the least keeping par with a fighter.) I would make the argument that there is not much difference between these 'helpers' and that of a cohort.
I am aware that most of my examples are class abilities so they are part of the class and not merely a feat a character chooses. Even though it is a weak argument it can be made that those choosing the Nobility domain, the 8th level ability to gain the feat Leadership, is also a class ability.
It was also brought to my attention that one of the issues of a cohort would be a cohort who was of a class that could also have their own 'helper' class ability. And no one wants a character of a class with a helper to have a cohort with a class with a helper. (I do not see anything wrong with it personally, but I can see how having four+ beings to keep track of for one player could be an issue.
I would suggest merely adjusting the feat so that a cohort has to choose a non-helper/companion option (of which there are many in Pathfinder). I would also add that a cohort cannot have a cohort.
My final argument, after searching through the ENWorld character creation page and the wikki itself, there is no restriction form character taking the Leadership feat (I actually thought there was and if I am mistaken, I do not actually see it listed).Which brings to mind the question, why the change to the Nobility domain power in the first place?
Thank you for your time and consideration on this matter.
~ Songdragon