Not exactly Cyberpunk 2020

[Wolf1066]

And it's finally all done:

Bludgeon Damage:
Punch, knee, head butt - 1D4
Elbow strike - 1D3 (1-2, 3-4, 5-6 on D6)
Elbow jab - 1D2 (odds/evens on D6 or D4)
Kick - 1D6
Short lever (billy club or similar) - 1D6
Long lever (long baton or similar) - 2D4
Articulated lever (Nunchuku) - 2D4+2
Chain (biker’s favourite) - 1D6

Damage Modifiers:
Strength:
V. Weak -2
Weak -1
Average 0
Strong +1
V. Strong +2


Training:
Boxing, brawling or any martial art that uses strikes:
Trainee +1
Adept and above +2


Brawling or any martial art that uses kicks:
Trainee +2
Adept and above +3


Punch-specific:
Haymaker -1
Backfist +1

Melee weapon:
Light (pool cue, empty bottle) 0
Standard (golf club, billy club) +1
Heavy (baseball bat, lead pipe) +2

Covering:
Naked (includes negligible cover such as light gloves or socks) -1
(May not apply under all circumstances)
Soft (casual shoes/sneakers, padded leather or Cordura motorcycle gloves) 0
Hard (leather shoes/boots, gloves with plastic/carbon fibre over knuckles) +1
Heavy (steel-capped boots, brass knuckles) +2

Damage Location:
Head - 2x damage
Abdomen/groin - 1.5x damage
-2 to Stun/Consciousness save number for groin or kidney strikes.

Secondary damage rule as per FNFF2013 with damage inflicted relevant to blunt trauma.

Armour:
Armour stops bullets for which it is rated at point blank range:

Type I - SP14
.22, .25, .32 and .38 Special pistols

Type II - SP22
.45ACP, .357 Magnum & 9mm pistols, .22 rifles
(Legal maximum for civilians in some jurisdictions)

Type III-A - SP30
.44 Magnum and submachine gun 9-mm
(Typically used by on-duty police officers, will also stop .454 Casull and .50AE)

Type III - SP42
High-power rifle: 5.56mm, 7.62 mm FMJ, .30 carbine, .30-06 pointed soft point, 12-gauge rifled slug

Type IV - SP84
Armour-piercing rifle bullet, .30 calibre (1 shot only).
(Typically Torso and groin only, would have a very high EV. Treat MetalGear as Type IV armour - with increased EV for covering more than just Torso/groin.)

Blunt Trauma Damage:
Although the bullet is prevented from penetrating, the force is not entirely stopped, just spread across a wider area. Some force is absorbed by the armour, the rest is transferred through to the body underneath as Blunt Trauma (a.k.a Bludgeon) damage.

Damage transferred is calculated as follows (from standard damage roll):
Type I and II - 1/2 damage, convert to bludgeon
Type III-A and up - 1/ 3 damage, convert to bludgeon

Penetration:
Any round that does penetrate armour (e.g. 5.56mm rifle vs Type II armour) will penetrate the body beneath and do damage.

For any hit, roll damage. If it is greater than the SP of the armour, subtract the SP from the damage and apply balance as killing damage. This is not the same as for an AP round.

If you want to be a real swine, apply the armour’s modifier to the armour’s full SP and apply that value as bludgeon damage to the same area. e.g. Type III-A is SP30 and divides incoming damage by 3 so the thirty points of damage soaked up by the vest becomes 10 points of bludgeon damage in addition to the n points of killing damage taken from the penetrating round.

Note: Due to distance and pure dumb luck (low die roll/glancing blow) a superior calibre may fail to penetrate armour rated for lower calibres. Treat as for standard non-penetrating hits – it’s not engraved in stone that a .308 must penetrate Type I armour.

 

[MortonStromgal]

Partially true.
It won't be directly connected, but the prevalence of cell phones with wireless connection systems (blue tooth, IR, etc) plus near-constant broad-band internet access means that any iPhone in the same room can provide external access to the "secure" computer network / data storage. It's tricky and unreliable (people move about and take their phones with them), but usually (not always) possible.

Look, I'm just saying that in the world TODAY if we want our project X secure it gets its own hardwired network without any internet connection. If you want any files you have to sneakernet it across with an authorized usb stick. Its reasonable to assume that the hacker will have to physically storm the building to get access to the full files.

And the number of people who need/want to be able to access that data without the hassle/time of actually getting there so insist on a secure VPN they can access from home...

Today we tell them no, they have to come into the lab and pass physical security. Now if project X doesn't need to be as secure then sure vpn access at a minimum is probably available.

 

[Wolf1066]

Look, I'm just saying that in the world TODAY if we want our project X secure it gets its own hardwired network without any internet connection. If you want any files you have to sneakernet it across with an authorized usb stick. Its reasonable to assume that the hacker will have to physically storm the building to get access to the full files.

It's not reasonable at all, IRL hackers do not behave like they do in the movies. If a hacker needed something that was not connected, they would use other tactics to get it - and the weak point in any "secure" system (as any sysop knows) is the humans using it.

Humans that can be fooled, threatened or blackmailed. The term is "social engineering" - and most attacks are based on it.

You can use your netrunner to find out exactly what the employees have been doing online - from work and/or home - and with any luck you'll find one who is prepared to sneakernet the information you desire to the secluded car park of your choice... in exchange for the information you've gathered being "lost". (But not so lost that you couldn't find it again in case the employee gets any wise ideas about squealing...)

All your characters need do is ensure the drop goes off without unforeseen hitches.

What? The employees are squeaky-clean? No evidence of anything that could be used as a lever? Quelle dommage, we'll just have to pick a random employee and manufacture some - that one over there looks like he's probably doing something dodgy. So, shall we make it a felony or merely "subject to summary dismissal"?

Failing that, the team could just go and attack a less secure site - the employee's home - and abduct his/her kids. I'm pretty sure they'd have the information they need fairly shortly...

My players may never actually meet their netrunner. They have a nickname and local number that they can call if need be, the voice on the other end - if it's not a sound sample captured from somewhere unrelated (local Pizza Delivery, Central Police Station (Rio de Janiero), Marks and Spencers' Complaints Dept etc) - will be synthesized or distorted beyond both recognition and the ability to identify sex and rough age. I may drop the occasional small hint as to what time zone the netrunner is in or some such tidbit.

Perhaps hint that their netrunner has actually observed them from somewhere nearby - right after they've passed through a festival of some sort or left another suitably crowded space - I'm pretty sure I can get a lot more "mileage" from a mysterious uberhacker than a Hollyweird-style stereotype.

As an NPC, the netrunner may also be a potential source of work for the team, as well. "I want you guys to go and pick something up for me...", "I want you guys to get this small box into that office and hide it..."

 

[MortonStromgal]

RL hackers do go into buildings

the most common hack.
Black Hat: Dreamcast is choice console for information warfare – Video Games Reviews, Cheats | Geek.com

dress up like a janitor and drop it off in the server room.

your also amusing the data on the usb stick is worthwhile outside the company network. If your using that level of security already the sticks are encrypted, self wiping, and the key changes frequently.

and yes, kidnapping is a good method, but even lower level security facilities have plans for that, thus why you dont have one sys admin to rule them all and code words.

 

[Wolf1066]

RL hackers do go into buildings

...

dress up like a janitor and drop it off in the server room. .

Dressing up like a janitor wouldn't get you into our server room - and we don't have any systems that have to be 100% isolated away from the internet so we're not "super secure" by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, dressing up as a janitor would not get you any further than the public foyer - our real janitors have to use proximity cards just to get into our office areas and they aren't able to get into the server room.

In fact, unless you are one of five people - all of whom are known by sight to everyone who works here (including site security) - who are allowed access to the server room, you're not getting in there.

And I'm sure that any place that had such sensitive projects that the internal network had to be isolated from the internet would find our site security measures laughably lax - I mean, we don't even use biometrics!

And compared with really secure places like the CIA or Arasaka.... well, we're not in the same book, let alone on the same page, security-wise.

The biggest threat to any organisation comes from within - its own staff. Gullible, greedy, lazy - all potential tools for an external threat to use. If I wanted to stick something on someone's network, I'd look for a way to get their staff to do it for me: someone who was actually issued with the keys/card and whose presence no one else will question.

 

[Wolf1066]

Have spent the last few days compiling a list of firearms - by no means exhaustive and not finished yet - for use in the game. Focused on semiauto pistols so far, mostly 9mm with a few .40S&W and .45ACP thrown in for variety. Revolvers, SMGs and various rifles will follow.

The firearms prices in CP2020 don't seem to be based on the real world at all so I've researched how much various firearms typically retail for in USD and then just changed the currency to Euro without working out the correct exchange rate - 1USD becoming 1 Euro (as 1 USD is currently around 0.76 euro that seems like an acceptable rate of inflation between now and then) - did the same with ammunition prices.

As the real world of firearms and ammunition is far more complicated than the basics provided in the books - and players ask knotty questions like "why can't I buy +P ammo for my pistol?" or "shouldn't my JHP rounds be doing more damage than those crappy milsurp FMJs?" - I've decided to add some variation.

Didn't want to get too complicated or precise so I've cherry-picked various things and ignored others when considering factors that alter a weapon's performance. For example, I've made rough approximations for some different types of projectiles but not for differing barrel lengths.

I've made the assumption that the default projectile for a handgun is some sort of standard-pressure hollow point and given -1 damage to FMJ/hardball and +2 damage to +P ammunition.

So now, the characters get differences in weapon damage depending on whether they bought cheap Wolf FMJ ammo or shelled out the extra euros for Cor-Bon +P JHP.

I'm melding real-world data - length, weight, frame size etc - with the game data (WA, Concealibility, Availability etc) and throwing in extra details that make it more realistic - choice of actions (standard double/single action, decocking lever, Double Action Only etc) for some, different finishes and customisations, whether it has an accessory rail for flashlights/lasers etc.

Want a two-coloured H&K USP in .40S&W with Pachmeyer grips and flashlight/laser combo? Certainly, you want high-visiblity sights to go with that?

Like your Walther P99 9mm and now want a nice little holdout pistol to go with it? How about the Walther P99c - even uses the same 9mm ammo so you can make the best of buying in bulk...

I prefer to stick with real-world brands of today - ones that have been around for years and/or are likely to be around for years to come - as it gives true "Brand recognition" - the players are more likely to have heard the reputations of Beretta, Walther, Colt and Smith & Wesson than Militech and react accordingly.

Want a Militech Arms Avenger or a Beretta M32?
Beretta.
Why?
I know Berettas are reliable.

Never mind that the Beretta in question is an aging .32ACP, it's the name they recognise.

My players are running around with SIG-Sauers and Rugers.

 

[Wolf1066]

"

Shotguns.

Not handled at all well in either FNFF2013 or FNFF2020. Honestly, didn't they have one person on their staff that could actually use a firearm? As to their research: seems they spent more time watching action movies than checking out the actual shooting clubs.

And unfortunately (for many different reasons, most of which have nothing to do with Cyberpunk RPGs) shotguns are popular with criminals. Also popular with home defence proponents and the military and hunters etc etc etc but I'm thinking more from the viewpoint of those encountering the unlawful use.

What this means is that sooner or later, the player characters are likely to either find themselves on the wrong side of a shotgun or desire to use one themselves - which means I need something to replace the ludicrous Cyberpunk rules.

So I've spent the last few days looking at photos of different spread patterns (some of which were pretty gory due to the fact they weren't fired into paper targets, if you get my drift...) and reading up on actual police data.

In the interests of simplicity, I'm ignoring all shotgun gauges but 12ga, all barrels except open cylinder and all loads except 00 buck and solid slug - it's enough of a logistical nightmare as it is. No Magnum loads, either.

Despite what FNFF 2020 would have you believe, the spread on a standard shotgun (like the ones they list in the equipment) is not 3 metres wide at 50 metres. Nor is it a metre wide at point blank or "close" (12.5m) range.

In fact, out to around 3 metres - 10 feet - it's a solid clump of shot with the wad in tow, likely to blow a ragged hole around 3 inches wide and 8-12 inches deep in a human target, into which the wad will also go.

Beyond that point, the clump starts separating out and the wad separates off to make its own impact on the target.

The spread rate for 00 buck from an 18-22" barrel is around 1 inch per yard, depending on various factors. This would give us a diameter of about 139cm at 50m (54.7 yards) - nowhere near the 300cm quoted in FNFF2020.

I've created a spreadsheet with approximate, simplified figures - 1m approximating a yard, 2.5cm approximating an inch - to give me the spread from the barrel (assuming an inch at 1m from the barrel and adding another inch every metre thereafter) all the way out to 50m (125cm in my approximation)

I've then, in keeping with there being a difference between shooting at a stationary human silhouette on the range and shooting at an evading target when you're also trying to avoid being shot, I've come up with die rolls for the number of pellets that hit your target as the circle increases.

There are 9 pellets in a standard 00 shot shell so my figures are based around that number. Up to 3 metres, we get a solid clump, beyond that nine separate pellets until the circle starts getting big enough for it to be possible that some pellets miss (assuming a torso shot). Out to somewhere around 20m, there's still a change that all nine pellets will hit the body (though getting less likely), beyond that point, when the circle's getting larger than half a metre across, the upper limit starts dropping away.

In order to approximate the decrease in likely pellet strikes I've started off with 1D4+5 pellets going to 1D6+3 further out to 1D8+1 further still, dropping to 1D8 (when the growing circle makes it likely that at least one has to miss) then 1D6+1 and so on down to 1D4 as the pellets spread further away.

Once I've tweaked this to my satisfaction, I then have to start coming up with what damage is done by the close-range clumps and the individual pellets as they travel further from the muzzle.

My aim is that I will end up with a table that I can consult and say "you're shooting him at n metres, which means he gets hit by 1D6+1 pellets, each doing xDy+z damage.

It might require a bit of rolling dice to work out the damage, but what do you expect when doing the equivalent of hitting him with a nine-round burst from a machinegun.

Which brings us to how much damage these things do.

A shotgun is, quite frankly, devastating. Muzzle energy is typically ten times that of a .45ACP, and it has been described as "like a nine-round burst from a submachinegun".

Each pellet is roughly equivalent to a 9mm projectile - wrt diameter, anyway, they are about half the mass of a 9mm projectile. The big difference between the two, aside from mass, is that the pellet is not as aerodynamic and not as effective at penetrating flesh as the 9mm. This means power and penetrating ability of 00 buck pellets drop a lot faster than for a 9mm projectile.

I'm currently working on how much killing damage the 12ga can inflict - both for slug/clump and individual pellets - in keeping with the actual figures as provided by weapon specialists, police etc.

The actual tested "one shot stop" figure for a 12ga loaded with 00 is 98%. Which means 98% of people shot in the torso with one shot from a 12ga loaded with 00 buckshot gave up the fight instantly - whether dead, stunned or just plain unwilling to risk being shot like that again.

This tells me that 2% of attackers shot in the chest with a shotgun were capable enough of continuing the fight to require a second shot.

So 2% survival so far plus a few more % for those who survived and were conscious and decided to give up and a few more % for those who were merely rendered incapable of acting but were still alive. Need to balance the damage so that it is survivable say around 5-10% of the time...

But even with really conservative figures, a blast in the torso from a shotgun at 10 feet is going to be irrevocably fatal under Cyberpunk's damage rules. Ten times a .45ACP? Even 9 times a 9mm - and using the weak 2020 figures rather than Luciferin or Rogue's tables - gives us 9D6+18, the eighteen alone being sufficient to qualify most people for wings and a halo. Try Rogue's 2D6+5 for 9mm/.45ACP and you're looking at the point blank damage of a 12ga being 18D6+45 or 20D6+50.

Ludicrous? Not really. If a character took 9 separate 9mm shots to the torso, what sort of damage would you expect him to take? Should it be decreased just because the damage is all delivered at once?

Nine-round burst from an SMG, ten times the muzzle energy of a .45ACP - not a trifling weapon, no matter what way you look at it.

How many critical/serious wounds would that be? You only need two serious for a mortal, three for dead.

Under CP2020, that'd fill up wound boxes at an alarming rate.

There are times when I seriously consider ditching the damage rules entirely and running combat resolution off percentile dice:
"One shot stop" percentages to determine if the character is capable of continuing the fight, various other crime stats to determine whether (s)he's likely to still be alive if not able to fight, other stats to work out what was most likely damaged etc - then fudging it from there...

"Well, you had a 98% chance of a one stop shot, you got his torso, he's no longer fighting and he's, lessee, down but still breathing... guts is pretty churned up and he'll die in around 5 minutes unless he gets help."

Or "well, despite being shot in the chest with a 12ga at a range of three metres, this guy's still coming after you... better shoot him again."

 

[Wolf1066]

OK, numerous ballistics reports later, and quite a few calculations, I have come to the conclusion that the muzzle energy of a standard shotgun is not ten times the muzzle energy of a .45ACP or nine times that of a 9mm SMG. It is close to twice that of a 5.56/.223 rifle, however.

Using Rogue's figure of 3D12+2 for a 5.56, that would give 6D12+4 - still pretty devastating, obviously. The same report that made the comparison between 12ga and .223 also described the individual 00 shot as being akin to a .22 bullet travelling in excess of 1000fps.

Rogue gives the .22lr pistol around 2D8+2 damage, nine times which is not much more than 6D12+4, so the comparison would work reasonably well in game.

The ballistic tables I've seen shows an individual pellet's energy dropping quite quickly the further it is from the muzzle - not too surprising considering it is not as ballistically stable as a bullet.

Working with a starting point of 6D12+4 at the muzzle, dropping to either 2D4 or 1D6+2 per pellet (same maximum damage as 6D12 for all nine pellets) beyond 3m when the clump starts separating out and dropping in stages beyond that.

Makes a 12ga shotgun the most devastating and lethal thing you can be hit with at close range in the game - worse than a .50 sniper rifle and far easier to weild in a tight area - but that is rather well borne out in real life with its 98% one stop shot record.

By tonight I should have a table with different ranges marked on it and should be able to just look across to see what to roll to determine how many pellets hit and what damage to roll for each of them.

"Rifled" slug is going to be far easier to work out - starting from 6D12+4 at the muzzle and then gradually getting weaker...

Too lethal? Too much firepower? I don't think so. It's in keeping with the other weapon damages and it is also limited in effectiveness - a pistol is deadlier at longer ranges.

The mean streets of my game have just gotten a lot meaner.

According to the real-life specs for Type III armour, it stops 12ga rifled slug - presumably at point-blank close range.

At 6D12+4 - 10 to 76 points of damage - a 12ga slug up close 'n' personal is capable of exceeding the 42 SP I've calculated for Type III-A armour (based on maximum damages for the rifles listed).

Two options are open: one is to redefine the SP of level III-A to be around 76 points, the other is to just leave the SP as it is - killing damage and penetrating ability are not one and the same. The killing damage of a one-ounce chunk of lead may well be a lot higher than that of a 180gr FMJ, but that pointed FMJ is going to be better at penetrating armour than a blunt .73" diameter lump of lead. Armour that will stop a high-speed hard pointed bullet should stop the slower, blunter, squishier lead slug - regardless of how much more damage said slug does to unarmoured tissue.

I'm inclined to leave the SP as it is for ease of calculating damage done by AP rounds and just put the stopping of lead slugs down to the differences between the projectiles.

 

[ValhallaGH]

worse than a .50 sniper rifle and far easier to weild in a tight area - but that is rather well borne out in real life with its 98% one stop shot record.

And what's the one-stop-shot record on .50 BMG?

I'm inclined to leave the SP as it is for ease of calculating damage done by AP rounds and just put the stopping of lead slugs down to the differences between the projectiles.

That's my inclination as well.

Good luck.

 

[Wolf1066]

And what's the one-stop-shot record on .50 BMG?

Haven't found the figures for that. Quite well prepared to believe that the figure in Rogue's table is not accurate as he did have to guesstimate a few figures - and I've made a few guesstimations of my own based on his.

Rogue's figure for the .50BMG is certainly way lower than what I've calculated for the 12ga.

I dare say a .50BMG's going to seriously screw up not only the person it hits, but the person directly behind him/her as well.

After I finished up the table for 18-22" barrelled 12ga, I just had to make up one for a 9" barrel - gotta have the good old "sawn-off" (or "sawed-off" or "lupara").

Less initial killing power due to the shorter barrel - but still pretty devastating. I purely cheated on that one - doubled the spread for the range so it gains 5cm diameter every metre instead of 2.5cm, halved the effective range and dropped the initial damage by a D12, used smaller dice for the individual pellets. Complete mock-up and probably not very accurate but it's "consistent" with the other stuff in game.

So, now I have the means to work out the damage from 12ga 00 buck or 12ga lead slug from a riot shotgun and 12ga 00 buck from a lupara.

Good luck.

Thanks.

Had a great session last night - the first proper beginning to the campaign after the "short" (two game sessions) introductory "Team-building Day Gone Wrong" scenario.

Got the team over to Australia (from New Zealand) to a place called "Streaky Bay City" (that bears a startling similarity to Night City, except its full of Aussies...) - where they know no one, have no contacts and no local knowledge... fish out of water.

So far they've met their new boss, been introduced to a fixer who has a rather unconventional marriage arrangement, contacted their hacker who is a disembodied synthesised voice on the phone, met their new landlady and two of their neighbours (a Wiccan couple) who took them out to The Afterlife (in my campaign, a bar for pagans, punks, goths and other alternative-life-stylers) where they finished up the evening drinking in the company of some of their neighbours' friends.

Had the laptop open beside me and fired up a mix of Goth, Punk and Metal music when the scene shifted to The Afterlife and we role-played meeting some of the locals. Worked really well, players got into the music and the scene.

All cash transactions involve exchanging fake Euro currency which a) makes it seem more realistic and b) makes it easier to keep track of how much money the players have got. Here's hoping it doesn't make it too much like "Monopoly with guns".

I tend to break out pictures or even props where possible or appropriate to help with the look and feel. Real-life brands such as Coke, McD's, Smith and Wesson, SIG-Sauer, Subway etc get mentioned, they "google" for info and find websites and wiki entries (instead of "dataterm entries").

The players seemed to enjoy themselves, so that's a good sign. One remarked that it was good playing with people who are actually interested in role-playing rather than just killing things and we had a number of good laughs throughout the game as people's weird and warped sense of humour showed through.

Out of character chit-chats were thankfully minimal.