WOIN NOW: What to do with CHI gained from careers in a non-supernatural setting that doesn't use CHI?

[TheHirumaChico]

I know there is a sidebar note called "Martial Arts & Chi" to this on p. 55 of the NOW 1.2 Core Rulebook, but it doesn't really answer this specific question: If a non-supernatural career like gives a CHI increase -- Ninja, Warrior-Monk, and several of the Martial Arts Careers on pp. 56-61 -- what does one do with that stat if the setting is not using CHI? My players obviously don't want to feel short-changed by getting nothing, so for my game I have house-ruled that any career that gives a CHI attribute increase gives an equivalent LUC attribute increase instead. However, I'm curious if there is an official stance on how this should be handled? I'm concerned that my arbitrary LUC trade ruling will possibly create an unforeseen game imbalance. How do others deal with this?

 

[Morrus]

You have two choices.

1) PSI, CHI, and MAG are all names for the same stat. You choose whether to use spells, psi powers, or chi stances.

2) You have separate scores in each and manage your spells, psi powers, and chi stances separately.

 

[TheHirumaChico]

You have two choices.

1) PSI, CHI, and MAG are all names for the same stat. You choose whether to use spells, psi powers, or chi stances.

2) You have separate scores in each and manage your spells, psi powers, and chi stances separately.

Sorry, I may be a little dense, but I'm not sure how that answers my question? I've chosen to not have any supernatural elements in my setting, so what to do with non-supernatural careers that provide CHI/PSI/MAG attribute increases? A character with CHI 6 in my setting will have no use for that stat. Similar to the REP stat I suppose, since in my setting, characters work for an agency that supplies them with gear, so they don't need to buy their own gear. I know there was an EONS article a while back discussing alternative uses for the REP stat, so maybe that can find its way to being useful in my setting someday, but not CHI/PSI/MAG.

 

[Eldyn]

You have the right idea and your concern about LUK is probably valid. I would transfer any CHI increases to AGI or possibly STR. LUK is a very powerful attribute and I think you are right to be cautious about giving players extra LUK.

 

[lichmaster]

I think you basically have two options: either you turn CHI into some other attribute that may be useful to your campaign (attributes are also open ended in WOIN, you could have HONOR or something similar as described in some EONS article), or you could just replace the CHI increases from those careers into some other attribute.
Having two sources of LUCK dice doesn't really work IMO because it's way cheaper to gain 1 LUCK dice by getting your very first increase in CHI (not all careers and characters have CHI), than to gain it by raising an already non zero LUCK score

 

[sum1els]

The NEW rules allow you to (once per career) swap out any one attribute gain for a gain in one of your species/heritage/race attributes or an attribute tied to your hook. Does NOW say something similar?

(I don't have NOW, so I'm relying on the WRRD for the NOW stuff.)

It looks like for Human the attribute is LUC, Augmented is END, Chosen is one of STR, CHA, CHI, REP, and Mutant it's only CHI.

Your Hook can be whatever, and you can probably tie one or more attributes directly to that at your DM's discretion.

It doesn't say specifically, but our group decided that the swapped in attribute must be one that isn't already boosted by the career. For example, the Ninja has: AGI +1, END +1, INT +1, CHI +1. A Human, could swap CHI for LUC and a Chosen could swap CHI for STR, CHA, or REP. An Augmented could not swap CHI for AGI +2 but could swap CHI for WIL if their hook was "who always finishes what they start."

 

[TheHirumaChico]

The NEW rules allow you to (once per career) swap out any one attribute gain for a gain in one of your species/heritage/race attributes or an attribute tied to your hook. Does NOW say something similar?

I have not seen this indicated anywhere in the NOW Rulebook (1.2). I am looking for what you mentioned in the NEW Rulebook (1.2) and here is what I see on p. 30:

Attributes. Characters advance 4 attribute points from each career grade. Apply all listed attribute adjustments. Some races noted for a particular attribute have an ability which allows them to optionally exchange one of these four attribute increases for a different one, as long as it doesn’t result in a duplicate attribute advancement.

This exchange option is only available via specific species abilities like the "Agile" exploit for Felans and the "Logical" exploit for Venetians. It's not an available option for Humans, which is likely why NOW doesn't include these rules. NOW has a "Heritage" section instead of a "Species" section since for the purposes of the NOW setting, everyone is just some flavor of human. Interoperability is one of the cool things about the overall W.O.I.N. system though, so that one should be able to drop say Felans from NEW into a NOW adventure and things should translate and balance reasonably well.

 

[Suskeyhose]

You could reverse what the OLD book says about the Ninja career.

In settings where the CHI attribute is in use, the Ninja and Shinobi gain CHI +1 instead of WIL +1

In a setting where CHI is simply not available, then reassign all CHI bonuses from heritages and careers to WIL.

 

[TheHirumaChico]

In a setting where CHI is simply not available, then reassign all CHI bonuses from heritages and careers to WIL.

Good suggestion, thanks Sukeyhose. This reply is a good opportunity to follow-up on how my original idea of giving LUC +1 in place of WIL +1 has been working in my campaign thus far. In short, it is working very well. I initially feared it would be too unbalancing, but it has allowed me to make my foes a little tougher while still getting my players to really think about their luck dice and when and how to use them best. The foes I design usually have the potential to inflict the occasional condition or two so my players are always wary of burning out their luck completely for fear of not being able to counter a debilitating condition at a crucial moment. The extra luck lets their PCs be occasionally more heroic and cinematic at other points in the game, rather than just holding onto a precious few for countering, which is making for a better game feel IMHO.

 

[sum1els]

I have not seen this indicated anywhere in the NOW Rulebook (1.2). I am looking for what you mentioned in the NEW Rulebook (1.2) and here is what I see on p. 30:

This exchange option is only available via specific species abilities like the "Agile" exploit for Felans and the "Logical" exploit for Venetians. It's not an available option for Humans, which is likely why NOW doesn't include these rules. NOW has a "Heritage" section instead of a "Species" section since for the purposes of the NOW setting, everyone is just some flavor of human. Interoperability is one of the cool things about the overall W.O.I.N. system though, so that one should be able to drop say Felans from NEW into a NOW adventure and things should translate and balance reasonably well.

I'm looking at p. 14: in NEW 1.2 (Career Creation Walkthrough step 5)

Apply all of the listed attribute adjustments. Note that you may optionally substitute either one of your species attributes or your hook attribute for one of the listed attributes.

It's interesting that they don't mention any restrictions here, but you're right, it clearly says on p. 23 that "Not all races allow this substitution." And I was wrong when I said that it didn't say specifically that you can't boost an attribute that is already boosted - that's also covered in another section I had missed.

I don't see any other reference to the hook attribute, though, so I assume that applies to everyone.

WOIN seems to use "species," "race," and "heritage" interchangeably even in the same book; I suspect this is due to the desire to start moving away from the charged-but-common-to-RPGs term "race".

In any case, for simplicity's sake, I think we're going to continue to allow any heritage to do this. There are a lot of other ways for determined players to gain advantages, and I don't want to stand in the way of my players building the character they want to play. Then again, I'm happy to let them make up their own careers/exploits/skills too, subject to review by the group. IMO this is one of the strengths of WOIN.