D&D 4E Obligatory dump stats in 4e: the irrelevance of Intelligence

[gribble]

Depends on the class. Wizards will want at least a 13 Cha for the -2 save feat, and have feats/abilities that work off of Wisdom as well.

Good point - I hadn't considered feat pre-requisites. Again, they seem somewhat class related though - i.e.: unless you're in the specific class that requires an ability to get a *necessary* feat, you can safely ignore that ability.

What is a wizard or warlock carrying that they care about encumberance? Sure, a low str has an effect - it's just not an effect that has any relevance for casters, unless they need to make Athletics checks.

Which proves my point. In this case, a wizard/warlock (especially true in the case of a warlock where some powers are keyed off Con) will always put points in Con over Str. Gone is the melee wizard archtype, except for RP reasons (in which case they'll be strictly inferior to the wizard who just dumped Str and had a couple more points to bump up an ability which actually mattered).

 

[gribble]

This has another implication... the "default" standard ability spread (16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10) doesn't include an 8. It seems to me that *every* class has at least one ability score that they can safely ignore, so the point buy option (which includes an 8) is strictly superior to the "default" ability score creation method...

Not to mention the fact that it's better for RP reasons anyway (characters which have one weakness tend to be a lot more interesting than Mr/Miss average-or-above).

Food for thought.

 

[Samurai]

How about something like this, to give some added usefulness to Int no matter what your class:

Intelligence Bonus for Skills – Highly intelligent characters have an easier time learning skills. Characters may choose a number of skills equal to their Int bonus. The skills may be trained or untrained, it doesn’t matter. If it is a class skill, it gets a +2 bonus. If it is not a class skill, it gets a +1 bonus.

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

<snip>(characters which have one weakness tend to be a lot more interesting than Mr/Miss average-or-above).

Food for thought.

But is it a weakness if there is no negative consequence (absent a self-imposed one for role-playing reasons) attached to it?

I haven't reads word one of the new rules, but I'll be very disappointed if things are as represented in this thread. Ah well, tweaking's half the fun anyway...

 

[Kaffis]

Make people roleplay their intelligence, and it becomes its own usefulness.

Besides, I've always felt that people who adventure for a living aren't likely to be good at statistics...

 

[Nifft]

Besides, I've always felt that people who adventure for a living aren't likely to be good at statistics...

"Never tell me the odds!"

Cheers, -- N

 

[Cadfan]

Part of the reason that Int has become a dump stat for certain classes is that Int based skills have been spun off into entire new classes.

Instead of 3e, where you made a fighter with Int so that you could get a few feats, in 4e if you want an intelligent fighter there's an entire class for you called Warlord.

So in a way, Int has become a victim of its own success. You have the Int based Wizard, you have Int as the secondary stat of the Warlord, you have Int as a secondary stat of the Warlock, you have special Int based spellcasting available to every class in the game with a feat (the vast majority of rituals work based on an Int based skill check), and so on.

Int is almost everywhere, so its easy to notice where its not.

 

[mattdm]

Instead of 3e, where you made a fighter with Int so that you could get a few feats, in 4e if you want an intelligent fighter there's an entire class for you called Warlord.

And so, if you want a rogue or archer with high Int, what then? (More problematic than fighter with Int, because you're chosing a secondary stat that's almost completely covered up by your primary stat, not chosing between two secondary stats with slightly different weight.)

I guess currently my answer is: well, make your Int no higher than 13, which ain't dumb, and pick one of the Int prereq feats. Maybe multiclass into one of the int-based classes if that fits your feel. If you feel like you want your character to have higher intellengence than that, consider shifting to a primarily-int-based class and making the rogue or archer abilities secondary.

 

[Felon]

Make people roleplay their intelligence, and it becomes its own usefulness.

How do you make someone roleplay their intelligence?

"Sorry, you only have a 12 INT, and that tactic you're undertaking is more of a 14."

In general, roleplaying is kind of a "lead a horse to water" thing.

 

[Felon]

How about something like this, to give some added usefulness to Int no matter what your class:

Intelligence Bonus for Skills – Highly intelligent characters have an easier time learning skills. Characters may choose a number of skills equal to their Int bonus. The skills may be trained or untrained, it doesn’t matter. If it is a class skill, it gets a +2 bonus. If it is not a class skill, it gets a +1 bonus.

I've been trying to think of something simple and elegant. Maybe a new use for action points that uses the INT modfiier.