Official D&D Sage Advice Compendium Updated

DQDesign · Feb 2, 2019

Yunru said:
I'm confused. Disintergrate does a minimum of 50 damage, insta-killing anything with 25 HP or less.
It's average damage is 75, insta-killing anything with 37 or less HP.

What "low-level half-orcs" are you using it on?

I don't know, maybe an average 5th level half-orc barbarian with 40 hp (I assume giving him a CON bonus is safe, because he is a barbarian)?

a ghastly challenge for a 20th level wizard, indeed.

Paul Farquhar · Feb 2, 2019

DQDesign said:
DMG, page 282: you can build the NPC as you would a player character, as discussed in the PHB.

Key word highlighted. You do not have to build NPCs as player characters and if anyone does for anything other than important characters, villains or key allies I would be very much surprised. I.e. some NPCs are also exceptional and have plot armour. Not low level half-orc mooks though.

Yunru · Feb 2, 2019

DQDesign said:
I don't know, maybe an average 5th level half-orc barbarian with 40 hp (I assume giving him a CON bonus is safe, because he is a barbarian)?

a ghastly challenge for a 20th level wizard, indeed.

Well I mean, if the Wizard's going to piss about using the lowest spell slot possible...

And if it's literally the first damage the Half-Orc's taken...

DQDesign · Feb 2, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
Key word highlighted. You do not have to build NPCs as player characters and if anyone does for anything other than important characters, villains or key allies I would be very much surprised. I.e. some NPCs are also exceptional and have plot armour. Not low level half-orc mooks though.

really? really still replying about that? You should be very interested in defending wotc any time! also again the rules written by themselves...

ok, check MM, page 342: 'you can add racial traits to an npc. adding racial traits to an npc doesn't alter its challenge rating' i.e. it doesn't render it exceptional in any way. which means that also a CR 0 half orc commoner can have the relentless endurance trait, and it is still CR 0.

DQDesign · Feb 2, 2019

Yunru said:
Well I mean, if the Wizard's going to piss about using the lowest spell slot possible...

And if it's literally the first damage the Half-Orc's taken...

my friend, applying what wotc is saying means that a 11th-level wizard, who has a single 6th level slot, could be not capable of turning into dust a half-orc spy, a 27 hp CR 1 npc. a third tier character against a CR 1 challenge!

this, at my table, is utterly ridiculous. not because of rules, but because of fiction.

but it can work at your table, obviously.

Yunru · Feb 2, 2019

DQDesign said:
my friend, applying what wotc is saying means that a 11th-level wizard, who has a single 6th level slot, could be not capable of turning into dust a half-orc spy, a 27 hp CR 1 npc. a third tier character against a CR 1 challenge!

this, at my table, is utterly ridiculous. not because of rules, but because of fiction.

but it can work at your table, obviously.

Disintergrate one-shots anything with 25HP or less all of the time, and anything with 37HP or less half the time.
Saying it doesn't work one a CR 1 because it has 27 hp is just disingenuous.

DQDesign · Feb 2, 2019

Yunru said:
Disintergrate one-shots anything with 25HP or less all of the time, and anything with 37HP or less half the time.
Saying it doesn't work one a CR 1 because it has 27 hp is just disingenuous.

so wotc rules are disingenuous, because the spy stat block, on MM page 349, is exactly a CR 1 challenge with 27 hp. And I can give it the relentless endurance trait without altering its CR, as written in the same MM 7 pages before.

anyway I agree with you, wotc rules are disingenuous.

Yunru · Feb 2, 2019

DQDesign said:
so wotc rules are disingenuous, because the spy stat block, on MM page 349, is exactly a CR 1 challenge with 27 hp. And I can give it the relentless endurance trait without altering its CR, as written in the same MM 7 pages before.

anyway I agree with you, wotc rules are disingenuous.

Not at all. You're being disingenous by ignore that fact that there's a near zero chance of Disintergrate not killing said spy.

DQDesign · Feb 2, 2019

Yunru said:
Not at all. You're being disingenous by ignore that fact that there's a near zero chance of Disintergrate not killing said spy.

it can be near zero, but it is not zero.
this is the ridiculous point for me. also because it has no fiction justification having a CR 1 half orc spy more resistant to disintegrate among other CR 1 challenges. they have to be turned into ash by the said 11th level wizard all in the same way.

WhosDaDungeonMaster · Feb 2, 2019

pukunui said:
I'm curious: What sort of abuse is the Shield Master ruling supposed to prevent? That is, what is the issue? What's wrong with being able to knock someone over with your shield before you attack them with your sword? From a tactical point of view, that makes much more sense than attacking them with your sword and then knocking them down with your shield afterwards, or even attacking them, then knocking them over, then attacking them again.

Besides, the NPC gladiator can do this: they've got a Shield Bash action, and they can use it as any (or all) of their three melee attacks. I've used this to devastating effect against the PCs - knocking them down and then attacking them twice with advantage. It seems only fair that PCs should be able to do it too.

They could also use power word kill instead (assuming the half-orc in question has fewer than 100 hp).

Yeah, ruling the Shove action comes after the attacks only makes it so you can give advantage to others (possibly) if they are within reach of the target. Otherwise, with cyclical initiative, the opponent can always stand up and your shove was pointless.

Official D&D Sage Advice Compendium Updated

DQDesign

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Paul Farquhar

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Yunru

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DQDesign

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DQDesign

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Yunru

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DQDesign

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Yunru

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DQDesign

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WhosDaDungeonMaster

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