OGL and GSL - can someone clarify the differences?

[Viking Bastard]

So for 3e they had the SRD and the OGL. Now, as I understand it, for 4e WotC dropped the SRD and replaced the OGL for the GSL, which is more restrictive. 3rd party publishers are apparently rather miffed over the whole thing and thus we have stuff like Pathfinder (with a dash of edition warring thrown in).

So, what exactly are the differences? Is there any amount of 3rd party 4e material being published?

 

[samursus]

So for 3e they had the SRD and the OGL. Now, as I understand it, for 4e WotC dropped the SRD and replaced the OGL for the GSL, which is more restrictive. 3rd party publishers are apparently rather miffed over the whole thing and thus we have stuff like Pathfinder (with a dash of edition warring thrown in).

So, what exactly are the differences? Is there any amount of 3rd party 4e material being published?

Yeah, there is 3pp 4e stuff out there. Not nearly as much as with the OGL, and the GSL is a lot more restrictive, but one can argue that the products/companies that are doing well with 3pp 4e are the cream of the crop.

Our very own EN World publishing is one of those quality publishers. The War of the Burning Sky AP and the upcoming Zeitgeist AP both have 4e versions.

Open Design just released Soldier of Fortune. Open Design also has many patronage model modules out.

There is the Amethyst Campaign setting, mixing fantasy and hi-tech. High quality work there as well.

A lot of smaller releases as well.

There's still a lot out there if you look for it.

 

[Viking Bastard]

Do you know exactly how the GSL is more restrictive?

 

[Marius Delphus]

Broadly speaking,

• There's no OGC in 4th Edition: you can't copy rules material wholesale. No, not even monster statblocks from the MM. Instead, the 4E SRD specifies what named game elements you can refer to (by name only).
• You can't redefine game terms (for example, you can't restructure how a race works), though you can create new "variants" as long as you give them specific names (like Greatmountain Dragonborn).
• You're not allowed to refer to your product as "Core" anything.
• You have to sign a statement of acceptance and return it to Wizards. (You can also sign a statement of termination and return that, if you want to discontinue using the GSL.)
• Wizards can revoke the GSL.

Some things are the same:

• There's still a list of monsters you can't use or even depict in artwork.
• The WOTC stuff you may use is limited to the SRD.
• Content standards.
• There's still legal text and a logo you need to include.

However,

• Because there's no OGC, everything you create is protected from use by other publishers without your permission.

 

[pemerton]

There is a good thread on this on Industry at the moment.

The OGL is a licence that permits the publication of text in which others hold copyright. The d20 SRD is a body of text in which WotC holds copyright, but which they have released under the OGL - which means that others can publish that text, and other text derivative of it, subject to the condition that all these publications also are subject to the OGL (and hence can be published by others).

The GSL is primarily a licence concerned not with copyright but with trademarks. It permits publishers other than WotC to publish material using trademarks owned by WotC, on the condition that the publisher respect certain conditions -mostly, that they abide by certain rules about the use of 4e game terminology set out in the 4e SRD, and also that they not replicate any text from the 4e rulebooks - even if such replication would not be in breach of any copyright.

It is possible to publish material for either game system without using either licence, but any such publication would have to be particularly careful not to infringe any WotC copyright or to attempt to wrongfully use any WotC trademark.

(I should add: I teach law in a leading Australian law school, but am not an IP expert.)

 

[Matt James]

Broadly speaking,

• There's no OGC in 4th Edition: you can't copy rules material wholesale.

Rules can't be copyrighted.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

Though, always consult a lawyer before doing anything that tip-toes through copyright law.

 

[Viking Bastard]

Rules can't be copyrighted.

U.S. Copyright Office - Games

Though, always consult a lawyer before doing anything that tip-toes through copyright law.

Even when lifted wholesale?

I know, of course, that pre-3e D&D has it's share of clones.

 

[Kingreaper]

Even when lifted wholesale?

The phrasing and typesetting can be copyrighted.

So copy paste will fall foul of that.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Even when lifted wholesale?

I know, of course, that pre-3e D&D has it's share of clones.

It's how you express/explain/write those rules, not the rules themselves.

In other words, you can't copyright the rule "Roll a d20 against a Target Number". You can however copyright the explicit explanation for how to do the process.

Honestly, you should look through the forums, because there's been an awful lot of talk over the past decade about what the OGL is, how you can use the OGL, and all sorts of arguments about copyright. At the end of the day, there's very few absolute answers you're going to get in terms of what you can and can't do; that's because IP law is complex and varies between countries.

The GSL is a whole new animal that was introduced in an attempt to prevent what happened with the d20 system under the OGL. Lots of people have been confused and thought the GSL was just a new version of the OGL. It's not. It's actually a new version of what used to be called the d20 STL; there's a large amount of similarity between those 2 licenses. WotC cancelled the d20 STL, so it no longer exists. What is there is the GSL.

The OGL is a license that WotC can't really control. It also is _not_ another way of saying "d20"; there are game systems that use the OGL but do not rely on d20 rules.

As for the whole "clone" thing... just because they're out there doesn't mean they're "legal". What people have done is produced a set of rules that they _think_ won't violate IP/Copyright; however there hasn't actually been a legal challenge to it that I'm aware of. I'm not a lawyer and I'm not aware of anyone that is a lawyer that's argued this in a court system. Unless and until it is, what you've got at best is a bunch of people that think they can do something (but don't actually have any legal background), some people that might have consulted with a lawyer somewhere who thinks it's probably ok as long as certain measures are taken, and a very few lawyers that are gamers and think it's probably ok as long as certain measures are taken but since they don't specialise in IP and the laws vary depending on the country they're not really comfortable talking about it except in broad terms.

Roughly speaking: If you want to mess around with 3.x rules, folllow the rules of the OGL.

If you have ambitions of doing 4E stuff, follow the rules of the GSL but realize that you're not going to be making a new game like Mutants&Masterminds but using the 4E rules instead; at least, you're not going to be making it and legally distributing it. Currently the rules are murky as far as homebrew stuff is concerned. The forums have folks making houserules and even some folks thinking about how to do conversions of one sort or another, but a full on "new game"? You'll likely be in violation of the GSL and depending on the scope/scale of it, you'll possibly be called on it, depending on where you post the work.

And if you have ambitions of playing some sort of legal hide-n-seek by claiming to be compatible with "The 4th edition of the world's most popular roleplaying game" to publish 4E material... well, folks have done it, but you're not going to really get enough information here on the forums to be able to pull it off.

But all this is just my opinion and observation. Sorry if it's not as helpful as it could be, but it's sort of a topic that been round and round more than a few times.

 

[Marius Delphus]

IOW, the OGL effectively allowed you to copy, paste, and reprint the SRD, which was a more-or-less complete version of the rules (and at least one company did exactly that).

The 4E SRD is bereft of actual rules material, and the GSL doesn't permit you to copy anything (from the rulebooks) that isn't in the SRD.

EDIT: Which is not a matter of copyright; it's a matter of contract. If you sign on to the GSL and take advantage of it (that is, marking your product with the Compatibility Logo, being allowed to market it as 4E compatible, etc.), you're bound by its terms.