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41st lv DM
1st Please define "Level Approriate" challenge. In 1e terms. Be specific, quote pages.
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D&D 5E Oh god, not goblins again...
- Thread starter tardigrade
- Start date
1st Please define "Level Approriate" challenge. In 1e terms. Be specific, quote pages.
MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
These things are almost never solved by just switching monsters. That's what newly experienced DMs do. "We'll, we've already done goblins, orcs, hobgoblins..." [Flips through Monster Manual] "Let's try Bullywugs and Kua Toa."
Nothing wrong with throwing in new monsters, but we have countless stories going back to the beginning of human history and people still manage to make new engaging stories involving humans.
I would focus more on trying new ways to roleplaying familiar races and creating new types of challenges.
Goblins are one of the main races of most D&D campaign settings, like humans, Dwarves, elves, etc. It is okay to take them out of your world or using something else, but there should be some story reason for it. Simply not including goblins because you are sick of goblins and replacing then with something that is very similar to goblins, but are not goblins isn't by itself going to make the adventure more compelling.
All that said, I'm biased. I like goblins. As a DM, I find them to be a lot of fun to play. I especially like the 5e flavor on goblinoid (goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears). There is a lot of good gaming potential.
If you are looking at a very different take and flavor, check out the excellent Web comic Goblins: http://www.goblinscomic.org/
Start at the first one. The early comics are very compelling.
Nothing wrong with throwing in new monsters, but we have countless stories going back to the beginning of human history and people still manage to make new engaging stories involving humans.
I would focus more on trying new ways to roleplaying familiar races and creating new types of challenges.
Goblins are one of the main races of most D&D campaign settings, like humans, Dwarves, elves, etc. It is okay to take them out of your world or using something else, but there should be some story reason for it. Simply not including goblins because you are sick of goblins and replacing then with something that is very similar to goblins, but are not goblins isn't by itself going to make the adventure more compelling.
All that said, I'm biased. I like goblins. As a DM, I find them to be a lot of fun to play. I especially like the 5e flavor on goblinoid (goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears). There is a lot of good gaming potential.
If you are looking at a very different take and flavor, check out the excellent Web comic Goblins: http://www.goblinscomic.org/
Start at the first one. The early comics are very compelling.
What's wrong with brigands? Mercenaries/military units gone rogue? In the case of a giant-centric adventure, a giant who is abnormally small for his kind, or multiples thereof?
Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem killing goblins & kobolds, but after a certain point, multiple published adventures using the same foes can get kind of...samey.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem killing goblins & kobolds, but after a certain point, multiple published adventures using the same foes can get kind of...samey.
Roadkill101
Explorer
Well physical re-skinning and cultural and behavior changes work pretty well for me. For humanoids I use a tiered sliding scale (in part where physical size is a factor) for a stat-block, to make an encounter easy to hard as I feel like it may need to be, then make up some fluff (including a name) to keep down the" ho-hum, yawn, its goblins or orcs again." attitude from being much of a factor at the table. Sometimes I'll record a unique "race" if planning on using them on a more frequent basis, as if it were a MM style entry (stat-block and fluff).
I home-brew just about everything and have long since quit playing any one edition specifically, except to use a product mine for idea's where I think I feel a need to tweak or for inspiration.
I home-brew just about everything and have long since quit playing any one edition specifically, except to use a product mine for idea's where I think I feel a need to tweak or for inspiration.
Sorcerers Apprentice
Hero
Try using evil halflings instead of goblins. Your players won't be expecting that I'm sure.
Ath-kethin
Elder Thing
I have been on a Fritz Lieber/Robert A Howard style fantasy kick for the past couple of years, so I actually have come to view all the various intelligent races as pretty goofy fundamentally. In my campaign, I reskin absolutely every kind of humanoid monster as a human or human variant of some kind. Pygmies, beastmen, Great Northern Giants, whatever. I don't change statistics and I don't change tactics (since that would take far more work than I want to allocate to it), I just change the way I describe them physically and visually.
I find it makes my players pay far more attention to what I'm describing. If you say there there are a bunch of goblins, the players know what to expect (I imagine this is part of the OP's issue). If you describe a bunch of short (or just hunched) humanlike figures muttering and snarling and cackling and licking the congealed blood off their swords as they jump and scamper about, nobody is sure what to expect.
If you'd told me 20 years ago that changing all the various races to human would be a great way to keep my game fresh and exciting, I'd have laughed you out of the room. But so it goes.
I find it makes my players pay far more attention to what I'm describing. If you say there there are a bunch of goblins, the players know what to expect (I imagine this is part of the OP's issue). If you describe a bunch of short (or just hunched) humanlike figures muttering and snarling and cackling and licking the congealed blood off their swords as they jump and scamper about, nobody is sure what to expect.
If you'd told me 20 years ago that changing all the various races to human would be a great way to keep my game fresh and exciting, I'd have laughed you out of the room. But so it goes.
4E actually did something which I liked, which was introduce the Kruthik as a monster appropriate for 1st level characters. Little hive insect-like creatures. I came to see them as the third part of the "opening salvo" triad for 1st level characters, along with kobolds and goblins. Unfortunately they were not re-introduced into 5E, but there are enough of the basic animals/insects in the MM appendix to take their place I suppose.
And that's actually a good point... I wonder if perhaps we've lost the inspiration to start intro characters against regular animals and creatures, rather than always go for the humanoid pair. I understand the reason-- the kobolds and goblins have the INT necessary to establish a "story" around why you are going after them (kidnapping, theft, attacks etc.), but always defaulting to them means you kind of waste all the animals in the book as potential threats for beginning characters.
And that's actually a good point... I wonder if perhaps we've lost the inspiration to start intro characters against regular animals and creatures, rather than always go for the humanoid pair. I understand the reason-- the kobolds and goblins have the INT necessary to establish a "story" around why you are going after them (kidnapping, theft, attacks etc.), but always defaulting to them means you kind of waste all the animals in the book as potential threats for beginning characters.
Just because it's LotR, doesn't make it false! Goblins with bipedal pets/slaves would certainly feel different.
