Pathfinder 1E "Old School" Rules for Pathfinder

[scruffygrognard]

Here are some ideas based on Reynard's guidelines:

Slowed Advancement Chart
Level 1: 0 XP
Level 2: 2,000 XP
Level 3: 5,000 XP
Level 4: 10,000 XP
Level 5: 20,000 XP
Level 6: 37,500 XP
Level 7: 75,000 XP
Level 8: 150,000 XP
Level 9: 250,000 XP
Level 10+: +250,000 XP/level

Give XP for gold pieces spent carousing and/or making a name for one's self (donations to a church, helping the poor, drunken debauches, building a stronghold etc).

Item Creation
At caster level 8, spellcasters can create potions and scrolls but are required to acquire exotic ingredients to do so (eye of a basilisk, toenail of an ettin, etc)... serving as an adventure hook. An alchemical lab costing no less than 2,500 gp per caster level of the creator would be required as well. The cost of upkeep is 10% of this cost per year + any costs associated with potion/scroll creation (1/2 the sale value of each item). Each potion would take time to brew and imbue with magic (1 day/500 gp value).

At caster level 12 spellcasters can create charged magic items. These items would also require rare ingredients (as above), the expenditure of gold (1/2 the item's sale value), time (1 day/500 gp value) and a lab costing no less than 2,500 gp per caster level of the creator would be required as well. The cost of upkeep is 10% of this cost per year + any costs associated with item creation. In addition, each charged item created drains the caster, causing 1d6 points of CON drain. These lost points of CON must heal naturally.

At caster level 16 spellcasters can create permanent magic items. These items would also require rare ingredients (as above), the expenditure of gold (1/2 the item's sale value), time (1 day/1,000 gp value) and a lab costing no less than 2,500 gp per caster level of the creator would be required as well. The cost of upkeep is 10% of this cost per year + any costs associated with item creation. In addition, each charged item created drains the caster, causing 1d8 points of CON drain. These lost points of CON must heal naturally.

Enforce creation times and get rid of magic shops (except those that sell simple trinkets, parchment, quills, spellbooks, etc).

Enforce Party Preparedness
Enforce encumbrance and make sure that the party is keeping track of rations, oil (for lanterns) or torches, & ammo.

Sandbox Encounters
Rely more heavily on verisimilitude and "common sense" for encounters, rather than CR. Creatures exist that the party are meant to run from. Avoiding encounters, or finding new and novel ways of dealing with threats, should be encouraged.

Skills
All characters (except rogues and bards) are trained in 4 skills at 1st level. These must be class skills. Rogues double their initial skill points (8 total). Bards gain 2 additional skill points at 1st level (6 total).
Skill checks for trained skills are resolved as follows: 1d20 + ability modifier + racial modifier + 1/2 level (round fractions down) +4.

Allow all characters to advance at "everyman" skills as they advance in level. Everyman skills are those that all characters can use untrained (intimidate, heal, jump, etc).
Skill checks for untrained "everyman" skills are resolved as follows: 1d20 + ability modifier + racial modifier + 1/2 level (round fractions down).

Skills that may not be used untrained still may not be used untrained, and do not improve as untrained characters advance in level.

Characters with an INT bonus gain an additional number of trained skills equal to their INT bonus. These skills must be either Craft, Knowledge, Profession or Perform skills that reflect the character's background.

Classes
Allow the following classes:
Antipaladin
Barbarian
Bard
Cavalier
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Wizard

Allow only the following prestige classes:
Arcane Trickster
Assassin
Duelist
Eldritch Knight
Loremaster
Mystic Theurge

 

[Tharen the Damned]

Some more suggestions that Deal with DM and Players and general assumptions:

1) The DM is always right. Players can NOT enforce rules because it is written in one of the books.

2) No fudging of dice rolls by the DM. Even if it means a TPK. Let the dice fall as the fall.

3) Not all Encounters can be won all the times. Players can not expect to only meet opponents with a CR they can hope to defeat. Sometimes a "charge to the rear" is the only viable option. IMHO this is one of the most important features of old school gaming! There might be an old red dragon at the end of the kobold warren. The players can run or try to talk with the dragon. But if they fight, they are dead!

4) Descriptive Skill use. Players do not go "I search this door for traps" and roll the dice. They go and describe where they look and how they look (I hold the mirror in front of the lock and stand beside the door and look in the mirror. The Fighter shines the Bulls Eye lantern directly into the lock). According to how the Players describe what the do, the DM gives a +x or -x on the roll "find traps". As a DM I installed this with my players and after a few sessions no one just "searched" or "checked for traps".

5) Orcs are pigfaced

6) And what Chris said above.

 

[Alzrius]

I posted some thoughts about how to run an old-school Pathfinder game over on my blog.

 

[Mallus]

Making casters work for it is definitely one of the things to do. I'm not sure you need to change the concentration rules, but enforcing them as is is key. Harrying spell casters is a tried and true tactic. Holding a couple archers in reserve with readied actions can go a long way at lower levels.

Here's the one thing you absolutely need to do re: casters.

Remove their player's ability to choose their known spells.

Wizards can learn the spells they find. Sorcerers (if you include them) and other spontaneous casters get only the new spells the DM approves off, regardless of what book they originate in. The same with clerics; they can pray for anything, they get what their god, in the guise of the DM, hands out.

Player's choosing what magic they can cast is antithetical to old-school play, but more importantly, by allowing certain classes to do it --ie, casters-- but not others --ie, everyone else, who only gets to the magic the DM hands out-- scrambles the system's already precarious class balance.

I watched this happen in a 3e/Dragonstar campaign where I ran a sorcerer. Over the course of the game, because of the GM's setting specifics, the rest of the party --non-casters except for a cleric-- acquired a random assortment of magic items, old school style, with limited ability to purchase items. My character got that, plus the ability to select a new known spell each time he leveled.

Our PCs were balanced at 1st level. At 5th I had a significant advantage. By 9th I had an overwhelming advantage -- to the point of making the rest of the party nearly obsolete.

All because I was the only player who could customize their PCs magical abilities.

 

[Nellisir]

Use class limits, but keep 3e style multiclassing. Depending on how high your campaign goes, you might want to use 2e level limits, or allow PCs to exceed their level limits after maxing out in two classes.

 

[Reynard]

Here are some ideas based on Reynard's guidelines:
snip

Some interesting stuff there but I am trying to stay away from lots of rules modifications. If the players can still play pathfinder characters from a rules perspective, I think it will "sell" better to "new school" players that only know 3.x and forward.

 

[Reynard]

Some more suggestions that Deal with DM and Players and general assumptions:

1) The DM is always right. Players can NOT enforce rules because it is written in one of the books.

Not me. I screw stuff up all the time. For rules knowledge, I often look to the players to look up or just know a rule just to keep things moving. However, the GM's word is final and discussions over rulings belong in the post game wrap up or, worst case, email sh*t storm that follows.

2) No fudging of dice rolls by the DM. Even if it means a TPK. Let the dice fall as the fall.

No fudging combat dice rolls. Random encounter rolls, treasure generation and similar "informative" rolls by the GM are, and always were, intended to be judged and fudged. See the 1E DMG.

3) Not all Encounters can be won all the times. Players can not expect to only meet opponents with a CR they can hope to defeat. Sometimes a "charge to the rear" is the only viable option. IMHO this is one of the most important features of old school gaming! There might be an old red dragon at the end of the kobold warren. The players can run or try to talk with the dragon. But if they fight, they are dead!

Adventuring is a dangerous business and the world is full of dangerous things. Sometimes, those things are too tough for you. Sometimes, things that are too easy for you get lucky, or you get unlucky, and you don't make it home.

4) Descriptive Skill use. Players do not go "I search this door for traps" and roll the dice. They go and describe where they look and how they look (I hold the mirror in front of the lock and stand beside the door and look in the mirror. The Fighter shines the Bulls Eye lantern directly into the lock). According to how the Players describe what the do, the DM gives a +x or -x on the roll "find traps". As a DM I installed this with my players and after a few sessions no one just "searched" or "checked for traps".

I'm mostly okay with "I search the door" (or the desk, or the book case, or whatever) but not so much with "I search the room." I don't want specificity to turn into pixel bitching. there's a balance and it's hard to articulate but I think it can be communicated with a few actions and consequences.

5) Orcs are pigfaced

I like them as "bestial humanoids" -- they don't all look like pig men, but rather a motley horde of humanoids with animalistic natures and features.

 

[Tharen the Damned]

No fudging combat dice rolls. Random encounter rolls, treasure generation and similar "informative" rolls by the GM are, and always were, intended to be judged and fudged. See the 1E DMG.
QUOTE]

Exactly!