On Magic Users and Darts: What's Up With That?

[Garthanos]

Speaking of how play experience would vary depending on which rules you ignored, there were actually attacks of opportunity in 1e. They weren't called that, but the 3e rules largely codified and simplified the disparate mentions of the idea in the various places in the rules. In particular, you could not just "leave melee" in 1e. If you were in base to base contact with a foe - in melee with them - then if you tried to disengage from melee (break contact) you drew a free attack from every figure you were in contact with. And it wasn't just "an attack", it was an attack on the rear of your figure, which meant you were flat footed, couldn't use a shield, and the opponent got a +4 to hit you. Nor was there a 5' step in 1e, so breaking out of melee in 1e was painful to the point of being something you just did not do.

"opportunity attacks" and "flanking" by other names I recall the rules for them being presented DM side though.

 

[Wolfram stout]

Nope. Again, we are looking at the origins (OD&D, B/X, AD&D).

MUs couldn't have darts in OD&D and B/X.

In AD&D, there was only a single proficiency.


...the more comments I read, I think that I am correct in thinking that this is largely, but not entirely, a 2e/CRPG thing.

For my group it was definitely a 2nd edition "thing". We had occasional dart throwing magic-users in first, but not regularly. Once 2nd came around it became standard issue, even though magic darts were rare. If memory serves it was pretty much based on 3 per round.

 

[Don Durito]

I remember all those gold box computer games were based on 1e. And it was standard in them to load your magic user down with darts to chuck once out of magic missiles.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It certainly was in Baulder's Gate


Classic.

I am an optimizer. I saw it, I still defaulted to dagger because I was an optimizer.

I optimized for the most situations possible.

This comes down to the difference between a CRPG and tabletop. In Baldur's Gate it was relatively easy to keep a wizard out of melee range, and also a necessary tactic.

 

[Shades of Eternity]

Here's an old 2e trick.

get a Tenser's floating disk and put 3-4 swords fused at 90-degree angles and weighted down so you can use it like a buzzsaw.

 

[David Howery]

This comes down to the difference between a CRPG and tabletop. In Baldur's Gate it was relatively easy to keep a wizard out of melee range, and also a necessary tactic.

sometimes. I found that if the mage actually hurt one of the enemies, that enemy would go out of it's way to attack him/her, ignoring the warriors pounding on him with swords, even if that enemy had to go around the rest of the party to get to him/her. It wasn't a problem in smaller/tighter areas, but in the wilderness or big rooms....

 

[Lanefan]

I remember all those gold box computer games were based on 1e.

A quick google shows they were released about one a year from 1988 to 1992, which puts them in the late 1e/early 2e era.

Wouldn't surprise me if those games were in fact based on early design ideas for 2e, but using the 1e chassis. (similar to the sourcebook - was it the FR Adventures book? - that came out in 1989 and had elements of both, even though 2e itself didn't emerge until 1991)

 

[Lanefan]

Here's an old 2e trick.

get a Tenser's floating disk and put 3-4 swords fused at 90-degree angles and weighted down so you can use it like a buzzsaw.

I think the DM here would be allowing far more versatility out of TFD than I ever would.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

sometimes. I found that if the mage actually hurt one of the enemies, that enemy would go out of it's way to attack him/her, ignoring the warriors pounding on him with swords, even if that enemy had to go around the rest of the party to get to him/her. It wasn't a problem in smaller/tighter areas, but in the wilderness or big rooms....

Run away, run away!


NB, in Baldur's Gate a staff has reach, so you can stand behind a fighter and still hit someone with it. Since Finesse isn't a thing in 2e that makes staves better than daggers if a wizard cannot avoid melee.