D&D 5E On the healing options in the 5e DMG

[Blackwarder]

(Trying to be nice).

There is a lengthy discussion on the wotc boards about the healing options provided and there is a lot of debate about whether Wotc fulfilled their promises or they didn't.

I personally feel they are not going to meet the expectations they set based upon what I've seen mentioned so far.

So if anyone who possesses the DMG can comment on the actual healing options available I believe many of us would be very appreciative. This is the ultimate deal breaker for me so I am hoping what is in there is good.

If anyone wants to discuss what they feel would be acceptable healing options then feel free.

For me I need to be able to play without rapid non-magical healing. I want to play more in the tradition of 1e,2e, and 3e when it comes to healing. I don't mind the requirement that a group have a healing class. I do not want to non-magically recover hit points over night or during short rests.

Seriously? After starting a huge flame baiting thread on the WotC board you decided to do it also here? Are you that bored?

Warder

 

[Sadrik]

I don't have a DMG yet, but I hope there is some talk about consequences to working with rests...

I have 2 different idea's I really want to work on:

1) a game where a short rest is 6-10 hours and a long rest is 3-8 days to simulate much harder to heal.

2) a game where a short rest is however long it takes to catch your breath and take a swig of a wine skin, and adjust armor and long rests are 1-3hrs... truly super heroic

The only thing you may need to do is adjust the short rest class features and long rest recovery of class features.

Perhaps, when you modify this way you can make the warlock get more slots per rest, or convert them to standard spell slots per day.

For fighter surges and similar things it is less of an impact to the overall classes effectiveness but you may consider adjusting those as well.

Calculate the number of encounters you might have in that period and adjust so they may have a similar number of uses over that period.

 

[Chocolategravy]

The healing options are the following.

1) You can only expend HD during a short rest by consuming a healer's kit. IIRC, this was the case in several iterations of the playtest rules.

2) Healing surges. As an action, a character can use up to half his HD (you start by rolling one, see the result and keep rolling up to the maximum). A character recovers the surge after a short rest and all HD after a long rest. A "super-heroic" option is offered in which healing surges are a bonus action.

3) Slow natural healing. No HP are recovered after a long rest. Characters need to expend HD to recover HP.

As I previously wrote, there are also options to change the resting rules.

1) Epic heroism. Short rests 5 minutes. Long rests 1 hour. Option to recover spell slots of 6th level and above only with 8 hours rest. I really wish they had included some discussion about the consequences on different classes for this option.

2) Gritty realism. Short rest 8 hours. Long rest 7 days.

Wow, that seems incredibly naive with no consideration at all for the large effect that will have in the (supposedly) balanced classes. At best it seems like an idea for a rule with lots and lots of time and effort left for the DM to actually make it work. Yikes.

I guess that is right up there with flanking giving advantage so the value of several feats and class abilities are greatly changed.

It would be not at all hard to come up with better rules than this. What were we paying these guys for again? Art I guess.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Wow, that seems incredibly naive with no consideration at all for the large effect that will have in the (supposedly) balanced classes. At best it seems like an idea for a rule with lots and lots of time and effort left for the DM to actually make it work. Yikes.

I guess that is right up there with flanking giving advantage so the value of several feats and class abilities are greatly changed.

It would be not at all hard to come up with better rules than this. What were we paying these guys for again? Art I guess.

Considering the books not available for sale yet, I'd say you haven't paid them for the book at all yet. ;-)

 

[doctorhook]

It would be not at all hard to come up with better rules than this. What were we paying these guys for again? Art I guess.

You're paying them for a playable, enjoyable game, and that's what they're selling. If you don't enjoy it, why do you post about it so much?

 

[doctorhook]

3) Slow natural healing. No HP are recovered after a long rest. Characters need to expend HD to recover HP.

I love the heck out of this.

Seriously? After starting a huge flame baiting thread on the WotC board you decided to do it also here? Are you that bored?

I went over there and poked around; holy moley, it's like the Edition Wars never ended. Makes me appreciate the quality of moderating over here.

 

[Sadrik]

It would be not at all hard to come up with better rules than this. What were we paying these guys for again? Art I guess.

You're paying them for a playable, enjoyable game, and that's what they're selling. If you don't enjoy it, why do you post about it so much?

I do not think that is a legitimate gripe. Someone can like many aspects and vocally dislike many aspects and still be interested in the game. You are not required to like all aspects of the game to consider purchasing it or even playing it. At the same time, I think you are reacting to Chocolategravy's very slanted notion that we are only paying for art and that the game as a whole is somehow flawed beyond recompense or worth. Could the rules be written better, I am sure. Is what was written have zero value, absolutely not. Additionally this is a living game and the rules will have updates through future rules releases and through the basic rules updates. I can see more coming based on further reflections. The DMG will not the only thing to be written on this matter as this is an important matter for a great many people.

 

[guachi]

The healing options are the following.

1) You can only expend HD during a short rest by consuming a healer's kit. IIRC, this was the case in several iterations of the playtest rules.

2) Healing surges. As an action, a character can use up to half his HD (you start by rolling one, see the result and keep rolling up to the maximum). A character recovers the surge after a short rest and all HD after a long rest. A "super-heroic" option is offered in which healing surges are a bonus action.

3) Slow natural healing. No HP are recovered after a long rest. Characters need to expend HD to recover HP.

1 is nice and it puts a minor dent on character resources. I can see why it was left out, though. Gives a good feel to a short rest about resting and tending wounds. I think I'll add that.

2 is a no for me but looks like it is there for more 4e like play?

3 is my favorite and I think I or I had read someone else coming up with something like this. Puts emphasis on healers, whether that is good or bad, and makes end of adventures/chapters awesome as it allows a difference between spending 1 night in the wilderness and having a week to rest at home. Totally using this.

As I previously wrote, there are also options to change the resting rules.

1) Epic heroism. Short rests 5 minutes. Long rests 1 hour. Option to recover spell slots of 6th level and above only with 8 hours rest. I really wish they had included some discussion about the consequences on different classes for this option.

2) Gritty realism. Short rest 8 hours. Long rest 7 days.

Don't like either as they are just far too different from the base of 1 hour/1 night for me to even want to begin to balance the game.

 

[barasawa]

Changing what the length of time is for a "rest" just to tweak healing will have TONS of unintended side effects.
Let's go with that gritty thing for example where a short rest is 8 hours and a long rest is a week.

Dragonborn Breathweapon usable once per day.
Half Orc - Relentless Endurance once per week.

Barbarian - Rage uses only recharge after a week, and Relentless Rage doesn't reset it's DC until the next day.
Bard - Expended Spell slots & Bardic Inspiration regained only after a week. Font of Inspiration becomes a daily.
Cleric - Expended spell slots regained after a week. Channel Divinity is once a day. Divine Intervention takes a week before you can use it again, whether you succeeded or not.
Druid - Expended spell slots regained after a week. Wild Shape only recharges the next day.
Fighter - Second Wind & Action Surge both become once per day. Indomitable takes a week to recharge.
Monk - Ki recharges only after a day.
Paladin - Divine Sense & Lay On Hands, Cleansing Touch, and Expended spell slots only recharge after a week. Channel Divinity takes a day.
Ranger - Expended spell slots take a week to recharge.
Rogue - Stroke of Luck becomes a daily.
Sorcerer - Expended spell slots and Sorcery Points take a week to recharge.
Warlock - Expended Spell Slots & Mystic Arcanum & Eldritch Master recharge after a week.
Wizard - Expended spell slots regained after a week.

Now that was only with the base races and classes, though some specialties/traditions/whatever that class calls it have more things that get screwed over. If you want a really low magic and special ability campaign, that almost works, except there are plenty of amazing things some classes or races can do who's recharge times are not based on "rests" which get distinctly MORE powerful in that kind of setting.

If you want to change healing rates, do NOT redefine the lengths of "rests". Instead, just move healing off of the "rests" system and give them times (hours, days, etc). Doing it like that, you'll avoid screwing up everything else.

 

[SigmaOne]

In my mind it all comes down to the difference between an RPG and a board game. An RPG system provides a framework, from which a group of people build a collective experience -- there is no winning or losing, whether or not goals or ambitions are accomplished. The more you make it about a set of rules that delineate what can and cannot be done, the more you lose immersion and the less of an "experience" it becomes. Board games, even cooperative board games, are designed to be won or lost and as such must cleanly lay out hard and fast rules (as much as possible) to achieve this this with any certainty. Board games without rules that cover every little situation are bad. In board games, you find every little way to gain advantage by working within the rules, because that's part of the game. You're actively thinking about working the rules to your advantage. Doing so in D&D is very much opposed to the point of the game. Moreover, of course we know it's completely impossible to cover every situation, and it's not worth trying. So a simple framework is made. To compensate, in D&D the DM has (and has always had) complete control. With a good DM this provides the same certainty that rules provide to board games, and it also provides a kind of tension and uncertainty that heightens the experience of roleplaying, which board games can never hope to achieve.

So much of the complaining about the design philosophy of 5e is from people who either didn't get exactly the game they were hoping for from 5e or would be happier playing board games or video games anyway. I'm of the opinion that there is both a very strong philosophy and overall very high quality design in 5e. I'm extremely happy that 5e was written in a way that empowers the DM and players to "play their own game," since this more than anything else is what makes D&D unique. There are details that could be cleaned up in the books, no doubt. I'm hoping the "living rule set" model works well for dealing with these kinds of issues, since it seems like a very smart and modern paradigm for an rpg ruleset --- learning a variety of lessons from previous editions. Putting off release of the game by a month or a year would not to completely wipe out any such issues, and I'm glad I didn't have to wait to satisfy those people who think that should have been done, because there's way too much excellence in these books.