D&D 5E On the healing options in the 5e DMG

[Eric V]

You're paying them for a playable, enjoyable game, and that's what they're selling. If you don't enjoy it, why do you post about it so much?

Having said that, I think more than a few of us would have wanted some professional advice on other aspects of the game to consider when messing around with the definitions of short and long rests; they are the ones who built the current classes with rest-based abilities. Saying "You can make short rests 5 minutes" is not advice. Saying "You can make short rests 5 minutes with the following adjustments for the following areas..." IS advice.

 

[Korgul79]

Changing what the length of time is for a "rest" just to tweak healing will have TONS of unintended side effects.
Let's go with that gritty thing for example where a short rest is 8 hours and a long rest is a week.

Dragonborn Breathweapon usable once per day.
Half Orc - Relentless Endurance once per week.

Barbarian - Rage uses only recharge after a week, and Relentless Rage doesn't reset it's DC until the next day.
Bard - Expended Spell slots & Bardic Inspiration regained only after a week. Font of Inspiration becomes a daily.
Cleric - Expended spell slots regained after a week. Channel Divinity is once a day. Divine Intervention takes a week before you can use it again, whether you succeeded or not.
Druid - Expended spell slots regained after a week. Wild Shape only recharges the next day.
Fighter - Second Wind & Action Surge both become once per day. Indomitable takes a week to recharge.
Monk - Ki recharges only after a day.
Paladin - Divine Sense & Lay On Hands, Cleansing Touch, and Expended spell slots only recharge after a week. Channel Divinity takes a day.
Ranger - Expended spell slots take a week to recharge.
Rogue - Stroke of Luck becomes a daily.
Sorcerer - Expended spell slots and Sorcery Points take a week to recharge.
Warlock - Expended Spell Slots & Mystic Arcanum & Eldritch Master recharge after a week.
Wizard - Expended spell slots regained after a week.

Now that was only with the base races and classes, though some specialties/traditions/whatever that class calls it have more things that get screwed over. If you want a really low magic and special ability campaign, that almost works, except there are plenty of amazing things some classes or races can do who's recharge times are not based on "rests" which get distinctly MORE powerful in that kind of setting.

If you want to change healing rates, do NOT redefine the lengths of "rests". Instead, just move healing off of the "rests" system and give them times (hours, days, etc). Doing it like that, you'll avoid screwing up everything else.

I actually fancy this rule not because of the intended results, but because it fits the pacing of many campaign are run. I noticed that in many case I tend to run games where is infrequent for the player to have more than a combat encounter per day. For campaign with such pacing, this alternate rule brings the expected use of power for encounter of each class to the intended value.

 

[Azzy]

Let the feasting begin!

 

[Psikerlord#]

I love the heck out of this.

I went over there and poked around; holy moley, it's like the Edition Wars never ended. Makes me appreciate the quality of moderating over here.

Yeah I much prefer the Enworld boards, I have to say. And I agree - it's option number 3) for my table! I was also thinking option 1, but that's really just a technicality - if the PCs are captured or something, they will simply stock pile healing kits

 

[doctorhook]

I do not think that is a legitimate gripe. Someone can like many aspects and vocally dislike many aspects and still be interested in the game. You are not required to like all aspects of the game to consider purchasing it or even playing it. At the same time, I think you are reacting to Chocolategravy's very slanted notion that we are only paying for art and that the game as a whole is somehow flawed beyond recompense or worth. Could the rules be written better, I am sure. Is what was written have zero value, absolutely not. Additionally this is a living game and the rules will have updates through future rules releases and through the basic rules updates. I can see more coming based on further reflections. The DMG will not the only thing to be written on this matter as this is an important matter for a great many people.

Certainly, and I think your assessment is fair.

Having said that, I think more than a few of us would have wanted some professional advice on other aspects of the game to consider when messing around with the definitions of short and long rests; they are the ones who built the current classes with rest-based abilities. Saying "You can make short rests 5 minutes" is not advice. Saying "You can make short rests 5 minutes with the following adjustments for the following areas..." IS advice.

Sure, and it's completely reasonable to wish and hope for guidelines to expand the current rule system. I take exception to the notion that this entire book (sight-unseen) is completely devoid of value beyond its artwork. WotC's staff have created a really good game with 5E, one that's enjoying widespread popularity (evidently even for Mr. Gravy, from his posting habits).

 

[I'm A Banana]

If anyone wants to discuss what they feel would be acceptable healing options then feel free.

For me I need to be able to play without rapid non-magical healing. I want to play more in the tradition of 1e,2e, and 3e when it comes to healing. I don't mind the requirement that a group have a healing class. I do not want to non-magically recover hit points over night or during short rests.

Question: can't you just do this by changing short rests to "it takes a night" and long rests to, I dunno, "it takes a week in town"? Or even greater?

I want the option of long-term healing, too, but I don't think it's hard to get, whether or not the DMG allows for it.

Changing what the length of time is for a "rest" just to tweak healing will have TONS of unintended side effects.
Let's go with that gritty thing for example where a short rest is 8 hours and a long rest is a week.

Dragonborn Breathweapon usable once per day.
Half Orc - Relentless Endurance once per week.

Barbarian - Rage uses only recharge after a week, and Relentless Rage doesn't reset it's DC until the next day.
Bard - Expended Spell slots & Bardic Inspiration regained only after a week. Font of Inspiration becomes a daily.
Cleric - Expended spell slots regained after a week. Channel Divinity is once a day. Divine Intervention takes a week before you can use it again, whether you succeeded or not.
Druid - Expended spell slots regained after a week. Wild Shape only recharges the next day.
Fighter - Second Wind & Action Surge both become once per day. Indomitable takes a week to recharge.
Monk - Ki recharges only after a day.
Paladin - Divine Sense & Lay On Hands, Cleansing Touch, and Expended spell slots only recharge after a week. Channel Divinity takes a day.
Ranger - Expended spell slots take a week to recharge.
Rogue - Stroke of Luck becomes a daily.
Sorcerer - Expended spell slots and Sorcery Points take a week to recharge.
Warlock - Expended Spell Slots & Mystic Arcanum & Eldritch Master recharge after a week.
Wizard - Expended spell slots regained after a week.

Now that was only with the base races and classes, though some specialties/traditions/whatever that class calls it have more things that get screwed over. If you want a really low magic and special ability campaign, that almost works, except there are plenty of amazing things some classes or races can do who's recharge times are not based on "rests" which get distinctly MORE powerful in that kind of setting.

There is no problem with any of this. Where's the issue?

If you want to change healing rates, do NOT redefine the lengths of "rests". Instead, just move healing off of the "rests" system and give them times (hours, days, etc). Doing it like that, you'll avoid screwing up everything else

You could do that, too, but there's no reason you'd have to. So wizards take a week to regain slots. So what? "Oh boo-hoo-hoo, it takes a week to gain back my ability to make the laws of physics bend over and call me daddy instead of a night, that is SO WEAK"....?

 

[gribble]

TL;DR: Break the strong connection between "rest" and a given unit of time, and provide rules to put the scenario in control over how and when you rest.

Even though it doesn't sound like it's in the DMG, this will probably be the default for games I run, although I'm unlikely to make the short/long rest periods any shorter than the PHB standards except in exceptional circumstances. I definitely like the idea of tying long rests to "turning the page", something that Legend already does (it's one of the few things I really like about the system).

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Changing what the length of time is for a "rest" just to tweak healing will have TONS of unintended side effects.
Let's go with that gritty thing for example where a short rest is 8 hours and a long rest is a week.

Dragonborn Breathweapon usable once per day.
Half Orc - Relentless Endurance once per week.

Barbarian - Rage uses only recharge after a week, and Relentless Rage doesn't reset it's DC until the next day.
Bard - Expended Spell slots & Bardic Inspiration regained only after a week. Font of Inspiration becomes a daily.
Cleric - Expended spell slots regained after a week. Channel Divinity is once a day. Divine Intervention takes a week before you can use it again, whether you succeeded or not.
Druid - Expended spell slots regained after a week. Wild Shape only recharges the next day.
Fighter - Second Wind & Action Surge both become once per day. Indomitable takes a week to recharge.
Monk - Ki recharges only after a day.
Paladin - Divine Sense & Lay On Hands, Cleansing Touch, and Expended spell slots only recharge after a week. Channel Divinity takes a day.
Ranger - Expended spell slots take a week to recharge.
Rogue - Stroke of Luck becomes a daily.
Sorcerer - Expended spell slots and Sorcery Points take a week to recharge.
Warlock - Expended Spell Slots & Mystic Arcanum & Eldritch Master recharge after a week.
Wizard - Expended spell slots regained after a week.

Now that was only with the base races and classes, though some specialties/traditions/whatever that class calls it have more things that get screwed over. If you want a really low magic and special ability campaign, that almost works, except there are plenty of amazing things some classes or races can do who's recharge times are not based on "rests" which get distinctly MORE powerful in that kind of setting.

If you want to change healing rates, do NOT redefine the lengths of "rests". Instead, just move healing off of the "rests" system and give them times (hours, days, etc). Doing it like that, you'll avoid screwing up everything else.

What you've really pointed out is that every class has a mix of powers that recharge with short and long rests, and they all have abilities they can keep using. Because they all have them, adjusting the length of rests shouldn't significantly affect class balance. Note that for the super heroic option, they did call out that you'll need to place extra limitations of the recovery of high level spell slots. Anything else that arises can be dealt with as they occur.

I'm not trying to imply that advice isn't welcomed, just that exhaustive advice doesn't seem necessary for these particular changes. I'll wait until tomorrow when I have the DMG in my own grubby hands before I comment further.

 

[Gimul]

Changing what the length of time is for a "rest" just to tweak healing will have TONS of unintended side effects.
Let's go with that gritty thing for example where a short rest is 8 hours and a long rest is a week.

Dragonborn Breathweapon usable once per day.
Half Orc - Relentless Endurance once per week.

Barbarian - Rage uses only recharge after a week, and Relentless Rage doesn't reset it's DC until the next day.
Bard - Expended Spell slots & Bardic Inspiration regained only after a week. Font of Inspiration becomes a daily.
Cleric - Expended spell slots regained after a week. Channel Divinity is once a day. Divine Intervention takes a week before you can use it again, whether you succeeded or not.
Druid - Expended spell slots regained after a week. Wild Shape only recharges the next day.
Fighter - Second Wind & Action Surge both become once per day. Indomitable takes a week to recharge.
Monk - Ki recharges only after a day.
Paladin - Divine Sense & Lay On Hands, Cleansing Touch, and Expended spell slots only recharge after a week. Channel Divinity takes a day.
Ranger - Expended spell slots take a week to recharge.
Rogue - Stroke of Luck becomes a daily.
Sorcerer - Expended spell slots and Sorcery Points take a week to recharge.
Warlock - Expended Spell Slots & Mystic Arcanum & Eldritch Master recharge after a week.
Wizard - Expended spell slots regained after a week.

Now that was only with the base races and classes, though some specialties/traditions/whatever that class calls it have more things that get screwed over. If you want a really low magic and special ability campaign, that almost works, except there are plenty of amazing things some classes or races can do who's recharge times are not based on "rests" which get distinctly MORE powerful in that kind of setting.

If you want to change healing rates, do NOT redefine the lengths of "rests". Instead, just move healing off of the "rests" system and give them times (hours, days, etc). Doing it like that, you'll avoid screwing up everything else.

Changing the length of time for a "rest" works well, from a balance perspective, as long as you also scale the number of encounters per day. Spells recovering once a week is not a problem if you are facing 6-8 encounters per week instead of per day.

 

[Azzy]

And also remember that the length f the long rest should also determine the length of the "adventuring day". So the allotment of XP per adventuring day for encounters should be spread over the length of the new long rest.