On the Origin of the Divinities

[Fifinjir]

The Dreamer always was, and indeed was before there was an always. The gods are the first dreams, the prototypes of creation. Of course, the specifics will change depending on who’s telling. And mortals can dream too. These usually remain unliving, but a fragment of their soul can give a dream life. And enough of these living one can come together in a hivemind capable of challenging gods.

 

[Aldarc]

Interesting. You mentioned that there was a time in the past that the gods walked the earth. Do you have an idea of where your gods came from?

Interesting. Were the gods the product of human thought? Or, are they just platonic forms that, to humans and other mortals, seem to have some form of agency?

My answer to both of these is the same: I don't always like to provide hard and clear answers for things beyond mortal ken. I like to create spaces for multiple answers, interpretations, and in-world debate to exist. There may be an answer but it's not one that I am terribly interested in answering because I'm more concerned about things that are pertinent to the players.

Maybe the Gods in the former case were born of the power of the earth? Were they born from a primordial chaos? Maybe they are just powerful spirits? Were these "gods" just powerful titans or giants? We don't know. What is known is that the gods sacrificed themselves to seal a great evil and their spirits now inhabit the lands.

 

[Hobbit4Hire$]

My god concept for my campaign world is pretty simple, there weren't any in the beginning. At some point in the mythic history of the setting, during a great war between the upper and lower planes, the immortals - one of the most powerful of celestial races, found the cornerstones of reality those that seized them became the gods and used their new found power to cast the fiends back into the lower planes!

Interesting. Were the cornerstones of reality always there? And the immortals. Are they similar to the Immortals from the Mystara setting?

 

[Hobbit4Hire$]

The Dreamer always was, and indeed was before there was an always. The gods are the first dreams, the prototypes of creation. Of course, the specifics will change depending on who’s telling. And mortals can dream too. These usually remain unliving, but a fragment of their soul can give a dream life. And enough of these living one can come together in a hivemind capable of challenging gods.

Interesting. There is a Prime Mover or One God, so to speak, the Dreamer.

 

[Hobbit4Hire$]

My answer to both of these is the same: I don't always like to provide hard and clear answers for things beyond mortal ken. I like to create spaces for multiple answers, interpretations, and in-world debate to exist. There may be an answer but it's not one that I am terribly interested in answering because I'm more concerned about things that are pertinent to the players.

Maybe the Gods in the former case were born of the power of the earth? Were they born from a primordial chaos? Maybe they are just powerful spirits? Were these "gods" just powerful titans or giants? We don't know. What is known is that the gods sacrificed themselves to seal a great evil and their spirits now inhabit the lands.

Gotcha. Thanks for the reply. Best of wishes.

 

[Fifinjir]

Interesting. There is a Prime Mover or One God, so to speak, the Dreamer.

Though it should be noted in universe there are many interpretations of the Dreamer. Die think They’re conscious and subtly active in creation, others as a distant and inactive figure, others still as more an unconscious principle or law. Likewise, some see the Dreamer as more of an office than a being, which has switched hands in a time before time and will switch hands in a time after time. So there’s a lot of variety.

 

[cbwjm]

Interesting. Were the cornerstones of reality always there? And the immortals. Are they similar to the Immortals from the Mystara setting?

Yep, the cornerstones were always there but were otherwise unknown. The immortals is just the name I gave to a race of celestials in my setting, they're the only ones with a true spark of divinity who can ascend to true godhood when combined with the cornerstones. Others can try, I have a demonlord attempting to become a god but he lacks that essential spark.

 

[Hobbit4Hire$]

Yep, the cornerstones were always there but were otherwise unknown. The immortals is just the name I gave to a race of celestials in my setting, they're the only ones with a true spark of divinity who can ascend to true godhood when combined with the cornerstones. Others can try, I have a demonlord attempting to become a god but he lacks that essential spark.

That is very interesting. If I read you correctly, the "cornerstones" are sort of like Platonic forms or Aristotelian ideals, in that they are sort of like the essences behind specific laws or regularities of nature, sort of like Fire, Water, etc. To me, it sounds like these celestials are able to "align" themselves with these cornerstones, essentially become "manifestations" or "incarnations" of these platonic forms. It kind of like Runequest or Elder Scrolls.

 

[cbwjm]

That is very interesting. If I read you correctly, the "cornerstones" are sort of like Platonic forms or Aristotelian ideals, in that they are sort of like the essences behind specific laws or regularities of nature, sort of like Fire, Water, etc. To me, it sounds like these celestials are able to "align" themselves with these cornerstones, essentially become "manifestations" or "incarnations" of these platonic forms. It kind of like Runequest or Elder Scrolls.

I haven't played runequest or elder scrolls, but otherwise that's pretty much the gist of it.

I like doing it this way because that race of immortals are still there, ruled by the gods who are the greatest of their race. There are other immortals who have also ascended to a form not quite at the power level of the gods, channelling the power of the elemental planes in an effort to cast down their brothers and sisters and size power for themselves. They became the Titans and were the progenitors of the giants.

I've basically taken many of the myths around gods vs giants in our real world and then threw my own spin on them. I like having this immortal race of celestials who aren't all on the side of good, or at least don't agree on who should be in charge.

 

[Celebrim]

I was wondering, in your world, what do you think are the origin of the D&D-esque divinities?

The orthodox accepted view is an unknown and now departed creator created the multiverse and at the pinnacle of that creation created two things - The Tree of Life which gives the universe it's organizing principles and The Cascade which waters the tree and powers the universe. The pollen of the tree created the spirits and fairies throughout the multiverse wherever it fell - the small gods - but the fruit of the tree ripened and produced the true divinities. Each of the seven fruit on the tree produced one of the great families of gods - though the last two fruits were damaged in the first god's war and there is said also to be an eighth fruit on the tree which has never ripened.

There are heretical explanations of various sorts by people who don't accept this version of the story, but contrary explanations like the gods are created by belief has major holes most notably that fairies and giants accept the above story and some of them have been around long enough to remember the events.

What's generally agreed by everyone though is that though the gods are incredibly mighty, they aren't mighty enough to have created the multiverse.